Some JNat Feedback Requested Please

[LBussy]

Okay I worked for about 15 mins on just the bevel. I still don't have cherry tomatoes but a lime from my wife's stash seemed to tell me what I needed to know. Heel was slow coming, toe slower yet. I thought I finally had it. When the wife got home she showed me where apparently I put he sharpie so I did the sharpie test. Here's the results:



So in the first one, let's cal it the "left" side, it looks like the spine and the edge has too much meat? It does explain why I have had a hard time getting the toe and hell, and why shaving with one side verus the other was a different experience.

On the second, the right side, it looks a lot closer, like maybe the toe will be problematic but maybe just a crapton more on the 1K will correct?

 

[buca3152]

Well if you want to flatten it then yes, or you can rock the blade as you hone it. I hone them heel leading and rocking to get he heel and toe. You can also rock it on the hone straight on. Raise the toe and start at the heel, then rock it and slightly raise the heel side to get the toe. The spine stays on the hone at all times. This will get you used to honing smilers!

 

[LBussy]

I understand I need to learn to hone imperfect razors (without removing a crapton of metal). At this point I'd be happy to get any good edge.

As a wise man just told me "it's always the bevel."

 

[buca3152]

Truth is most razors are off somewhat. If you want perfectly flat, then use your 325 dmt to get it completely flat. Then take it from there.

 

[Brooksie967]

Truth is most razors are off somewhat. If you want perfectly flat, then use your 325 dmt to get it completely flat. Then take it from there.

Most GDs are off somewhat. I haven't had a Japanese razor that was off yet.

 

[KZero]

(here's where Doc tells me to get some cherry tomatoes)

If you're like me and don't eat/use tomatoes, get some grapes (I like white seedless.) Serve the same function.

So it could be something, it could be everything, it could be nothing. Got it!

See? You're learning! Just kidding, but it definitely feels that way a lot. I'm not "there" yet either, but I'm a lot further along than a few months ago. There are not many direct answers in this game, something it took me a while to get through my thick skull.

 

[Heespharm]

Most GDs are off somewhat. I haven't had a Japanese razor that was off yet.

I've had plenty Jpn rzrs that are uneven but not as bad as Sheffield rzrs or even worse gds

 

[buca3152]

SHeffield near wedges are IME warped about 1/3 of the time. Yet they can be honed easily most of the time. Putting a window or a door in an opening that isnt 100% level and plumb is part of the deal. You make it work. And Japanese razors are a better grind. But Ive had one that was definitely warped as well. Honed and shaved fine.

 

[Gamma]

IMO - theres no point in point fighting the geometry in ithat. Blade. Heel leading strokes and rolling strokes should get it done.
Going from bevel set right to the rest of the work will help keep the muscle memory, if you take a break after setting the bevel, it might take a short while to get the rythmn and gymnastics down

its hard to judge by the photo on my phone - but at a glance - you might consider using tape to prevent making the spinewear at the toe on that one side any worse. Or - just hone the snot out of it until it submits - and then see what the resulting bevel angle is.

 

[LBussy]

I know I'm abusing this blade. It's not that I don't care it's that this is what this blade was intended to do: Soak up the abuse and let me learn.

The progression last night was better. I can still see that I do not have all the the 1K scratches out toe and heel. I was out of time/energy last night so I shaved on it this morning. In general it's greatly improved but can be better.

People talk about rolling X's, "rocking and rolling", all that. Here's my quandary:

How do you do these gymnastics and still maintain the correct bevel? It seems like it would be incredibly easy to get the angle off. To get the heel one would almost have to lift the toe a little when starting out on the X. To get the toe, it would be highly likely/possible to lift the heel. Am I over-thinking it? Is this really what's happening?

 

[Heespharm]

Bevel Angle is set by the distance between the the spine and the edge.. That is a measurable constant... doesn't change by rolling the pressure from heal to toe

 

[Lakebound]

Bevel Angle is set by the distance between the the spine and the edge.. That is a measurable constant... doesn't change by rolling the pressure from heal to toe

+1. Keep the spine flat and you are always going to be operating within that math.

Frank

 

[LBussy]

Okay, I guess that makes sense but doesn't that promote a smile if I rock up/down to get the toe/heel?

 

[buca3152]

I know I'm abusing this blade. It's not that I don't care it's that this is what this blade was intended to do: Soak up the abuse and let me learn.

The progression last night was better. I can still see that I do not have all the the 1K scratches out toe and heel. I was out of time/energy last night so I shaved on it this morning. In general it's greatly improved but can be better.

People talk about rolling X's, "rocking and rolling", all that. Here's my quandary:

How do you do these gymnastics and still maintain the correct bevel? It seems like it would be incredibly easy to get the angle off. To get the heel one would almost have to lift the toe a little when starting out on the X. To get the toe, it would be highly likely/possible to lift the heel. Am I over-thinking it? Is this really what's happening?

Yes that is exactly whats happening. Its good honing technique.The sooner you learn the gymnastics, the better imo.And 1 degree difference from heel to toe means nothing.

 

[DJKELLY]

Most important imo is being able to hit the entire edge with whatever method you use. Most blades arent completely flat and straight. I think a nagura set is a great idea but getting the edge covered would be first on my list.

This^. The first thing I noticed is you (OP) said that it was new so not warped. Not a good assumption. Mark the edge with sharpie and use a narrow hone and you wont have a problem.

I had the same problem on a new to men Friodur with no wear. Switched to a skinny les latneuses and got great results in no time. Later, Denny

 

[LBussy]

This^. The first thing I noticed is you (OP) said that it was new so not warped. Not a good assumption. Mark the edge with sharpie and use a narrow hone and you wont have a problem.

I had the same problem on a new to men Friodur with no wear. Switched to a skinny les latneuses and got great results in no time. Later, Denny

I'm real good at jumping to conclusions. I've got like a PhD.

It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel, It's always the bevel.

 

[DJKELLY]

Yep, hoser, it might be the bevel. I have used narrow slurry stones to get past a warp on a brand new Revisor. I could see a lot of light under the edge when laid on a straight surface. Honing on a very narrow rock is a skill we all should have.

 

[LBussy]

I haven't been called hoser in 30 years!

 

[Gamma]

People talk about rolling X's, "rocking and rolling", all that. Here's my quandary:

How do you do these gymnastics and still maintain the correct bevel? It seems like it would be incredibly easy to get the angle off. To get the heel one would almost have to lift the toe a little when starting out on the X. To get the toe, it would be highly likely/possible to lift the heel. Am I over-thinking it? Is this really what's happening?

Yes - that's exactly what is happening. Sorta.

It is possible to mess up the bevel by executing the roll incorrectly, flexing the blade, pitching the blade, etc.
I see this all the time, poorly done rolling strokes that left 2-3 distinct bevels, when you look at the blade 'just right' you can see the scratch patterns leading into each other.

With practice - you get the rhythm down, and the muscles in your arm/hand will follow the 'feel' of the blade on the stone.
Many people attempt this in parts, each section of the blade gets it's own 'time' on the stone - sorta.
After that - they work up slowly to the rolling part where it all gets tied up together and smoothed out.

As long as you're beating up that razor - might be a good candidate for such a practice session.

 

[LBussy]

As long as you're beating up that razor - might be a good candidate for such a practice session.

That's the plan, man. i could follow the "instructions" of "the other place" and abuse a TI, or I can abuse a GD. Actually in the other place I would not be fit to buy a JNat let alone ask questions about it.

Last night was pool and bourbon. Tonight, more honing.