After a Coticule?

[jgkeegan]

As far as a JNAT vs a coticule edge, I think both are great, the JNAT one is easier to obtain for most. I also think a great coticule edge falls short of a great JNAT edge in keenness yet it still has the same smoothness that is lacking in all the synthetics.

James great post, keep it up on whatever method you choose, but I must say you have already taken the red pill.

Thanks. I agree with everything you wrote. I think both Jnat and a coticule edges are great. It has been much easier for me to get a Jnat edge than a coticule edge and I though the coticule edge fell short of a Jnat edge until I experienced Gary's coticule hone.

By the way, Gary strongly recommended that I experience one of your Jnat hones.

Both have an smoothness not usually found after a synthetic hone. In fact, the trigger for me to start experimenting was my wish to make a synthetic edge smoother and more comfortable. My synthetic edges are not too dissimilar from a Feather or Kai shavette edge.Very sharp and requiring much focus. A NanoCloth progression did that, as did finishing a synthetic hone on a surgical black Arkie.

Still, the feel that you can't cut yourself is consistent between coticules and Jnats and it is a very pleasant thing to use.

Since I shaved with Gary's hone, I have shaved with one of my own new coticule hones which didn't equal Gary's but which was very nice. I'll keep working on that. I have also shaved with one of my Jnat hones, yesterday in fact, and that was very good. Interestingly each of my coticule and Jnat hones are an improvement on the one before. I have my coticule target; that's Gary's hone. And not to ignore where I came from, I did my regular synthetic hone during the week and finished off with the Arkie and that was a vary good shave indeed, perhaps not as smooth as the coticule and Jnat but very close.

 

[jgkeegan]

Lovely images - truly.

You're saying this is your best ever edge and look at that bevel.

I'ts ugly as sin (in an aesthetic sense) - and yet it shaves like a dream.

And there you have it. We don't shave with pix - and there's proof.
Well done.

Thanks, thanks, but I think the photos will be helpful to me. I just need to mentally adjust from the 400x of Gary's edge and the 100x of what I see in my microscope. I still feel the visual cues are a significant factor in getting a good edge, maybe the most important. Actually, I'd love to the the progression that let to Gary's edge. But even the ending photos are a target for me.

Interestingly, the photos I posted of Gary's edge are kind of ugly. Yet when I looked at them in my 100x scope the edge pretty good. I should mention that the 400x photos have one shave on the edge.

 

[gary haywood]

James unfortunately I hav.nt got a j nat at the mo, thinking about trying another one from Alex Gilmore, doc has recommended me a thew choices, I ,ll have to check them out..

GaryGary

 

[jgkeegan]

James unfortunately I hav.nt got a j nat at the mo, thinking about trying another one from Alex Gilmore, doc has recommended me a thew choices, I ,ll have to check them out..

GaryGary

No problem. Doc has graciously offered to put a Jnat edge on one of razors. This will be another part of my learning experience and I will have a benchmark for Jnat hones as well as coticule hones.

 

[Oscroft]

No problem. Doc has graciously offered to put a Jnat edge on one of razors. This will be another part of my learning experience and I will have a benchmark for Jnat hones as well as coticule hones.

Getting a few nice edges done by the experts really is a great help in learning to hone well - I'm fortunate enough to have a coti edge from Gary, and JNAT and escher edges from Brooksie (I might actually have mentioned that before, but I do consider myself privileged )

 

[gary haywood]

Do s your man for a j nat edge, I,ll have two j nat edges from him soon, I,m realy privalaged

gary

 

[JHP]

Great thread James. It took me awhile to catch up with the end of the dialog, but now that I have I want to know how things are going! You've been quiet for awhile. Jnat? Coticule? Back to the synthetics? What are you working on?

After reading this thread I was inspired to pull my la grise out again, and have gotten 2 wonderful edges now. The second was on a razor with a pretty good smile and took longer for me to get an HHT3 off the stone, but I'm quite pleased with the results now. Thanks especially to Gary who has coached me on-and-off over the last few months, and for his posts in this thread and others too. Super interesting post a couple months ago -

Once I get to a misty slurry I work it out ... Then rinse stone do 30 x strokes on water ...if my hht is!not a catch and a pop I will do a set of half strokes with slight pressure followed by 30 x strokes and retest hht ....once I,m happy I sometimes rub my BBw slurry stone on the coticule, rinse it clean and give a good rub...then I,ll finish with 50 x strokes on water , strop 60 linen with pressure and same on leather..test hht and I always get a hht 4 plus ....

So you're trying to expose just a few more garnets, heh? And you use the BBW side of the slurry stone since it is less abrasive I assume. Very interesting.

 

[gary haywood]

That's correct , just exposing a thew more garnets to the surface...

Gary

 

[jgkeegan]

Great thread James. It took me awhile to catch up with the end of the dialog, but now that I have I want to know how things are going! You've been quiet for awhile. Jnat? Coticule? Back to the synthetics? What are you working on?

After reading this thread I was inspired to pull my la grise out again, and have gotten 2 wonderful edges now. The second was on a razor with a pretty good smile and took longer for me to get an HHT3 off the stone, but I'm quite pleased with the results now. Thanks especially to Gary who has coached me on-and-off over the last few months, and for his posts in this thread and others too. Super interesting post a couple months ago -

Thanks Josh.

Since my last post to this thread, I have honed and shaved with several coticule, Jnat and synthetic hones.

My contcule hones continue to improve, although much less dramatically than in the beginning. Gary's hone is my target.

My Jnat hones also continue to improve. Doc has the razor he is honing for me and I am awaiting its arrival. I have no doubt that will become my Jnat hone target.

Comparing the two, both the coticule and Jnat hones have that SMOOTH feeling when shaving like you can not cut yourself. Both shaves are close although the Jnat edges seem to shave consistently closer at this stage. However Gary's coticule edge was as keen as any Jnat edge I have produced.

The synthetics always produce a very sharp edge, just as film does by the way. Depending on how I finish the synthetic or film edges, the shave may be less smooth than the Jnat or coticule, but not as comfortable in some ways although the difference is not all that great. It is noticeable.

And not to forget the surgical black Arkie, a synthetic or film hone finished on the Arkie is both sharp and smooth although not as smooth as the Coti or Jnat. The difference is very small.

I am trying to figure out what all of this means.

And I am having fun.

And I am not wearing a honing kimono when I hone.

 

[jgkeegan]

An Absolutely Wonderful Shave

The Straight Doc Jnat honed for me arrived a few days ago and I shaved with it for the first time moments ago.

It was a wonderful shave, absolutely wonderful. It was very sharp, as sharp as any edge I have ever experienced. It was al very smooth, as smooth as any edge I have ever experienced.

Buy definition, it's the thing I have been looking for: sharp and smooth.

It felt like I couldn't cut myself, yet I was aware that my 3-day beard was disappearing without resistance.

Thanks Doc, and thank all of you who watched this process and helped me.

 

[ACorazza]

Sounds like you've found what you are looking for. I have too settled on JNATs but I still enjoy using my coticules for heavier stiffer grinds.

 

[gary haywood]

I new you would like docs j nat edge.. I have another two razors a matching pair to be exact.. Both cleaned up and honed by doc, tryed one shaved lovely.. You won't get much that tops docs edges.

gary

 

[Heespharm]

I new you would like docs j nat edge.. I have another two razors a matching pair to be exact.. Both cleaned up and honed by doc, tryed one shaved lovely.. You won't get much that tops docs edges.

gary

+2 I have a puma on the way and he honed my aust.... Great edge... Trying to duplicate it with little success

 

[jgkeegan]

Sounds like you've found what you are looking for. I have too settled on JNATs but I still enjoy using my coticules for heavier stiffer grinds.

Yeah, I did find what I was looking for in a way. Still, for reasons I can't explain, I am finding myself trying different combinations of hone/finish if only to try the result.

I haven't gotten to the point of using sprays or emulsions on a coticule, film, syhthetics or Jnats but there's a video out there, I think from Ken Schwartz where one of his colleagues has a detailed video with scads of high resultion screen shots of using a fine emulsion on a Jnat.

I've come to the belief that it's not just getting the perfect shave we read of so often but it's the process we use to get there that creates much of our pleasure. I like to one.

Where I stand now is that I have a target for my honing. Doc provided that. But there really wasn't all that much difference in Gary's coticule hone and Doc's Jnat hone. I feel that Doc's was a bit keener but I can't imagine a straight shaver who would be delighted to have either, or both.

Of course I never shaved off an Escher....

 

[jgkeegan]

I new you would like docs j nat edge.. I have another two razors a matching pair to be exact.. Both cleaned up and honed by doc, tryed one shaved lovely.. You won't get much that tops docs edges.

gary

I agree, although your coticule hone was so close that some might not tell the difference.

 

[jgkeegan]

+2 I have a puma on the way and he honed my aust.... Great edge... Trying to duplicate it with little success

Yeah, but the trying is a key part of it.

 

[ACorazza]

Sometimes I'll actually go from a jnat edge and touch up on a coticule an I've noticed that this gives me the best of both worlds. It also shows me that I am not reaching my full potential on a coticule only

 

[jgkeegan]

Sometimes I'll actually go from a jnat edge and touch up on a coticule an I've noticed that this gives me the best of both worlds. It also shows me that I am not reaching my full potential on a coticule only

I have cone the other way, coticule to Jnat, with some success. I have also done coticule, surgical black Arkie, coticule again with great results (for reasons I cannot fathom).

 

[ACorazza]

I have cone the other way, coticule to Jnat, with some success. I have also done coticule, surgical black Arkie, coticule again with great results (for reasons I cannot fathom).

I find it easier for me to reach a higher level of keeness on a JNAT and then my coticule with either very light slurry or water gets me a very sharp and smooth edge if I use it in place of, or after a Tomo session

 

[Doc226]

Glad you liked the edge James, I have always said that sharp is easy, sharp and smooth is the difficult part.