Tell us bout your Adaee #12000 (not your other Cnats)

[rbscebu]

The purpose of this thread is to obtain other's experience of honing with their Adaee #12000 Cnat whetstone, if you have/had one. There are plenty of other Cnats out there but I would prefer if this thread is restricted to the Adaee #12000 whetstone.

I received my Adaee #12000 a little over five months ago (about US$40 incl. shipping). It is 200mm x 75mm x 30mm with an SG = 2.77. Here is as received:

​

After lapping flat and quite a few honing sessions, it is now looking like this:

Dry


Wet
​

I have found this whetstone to be noticeably finer than my 10k Jsynth but a very slow cutter. I also consider it a splash and go type of stone with almost no water absorption.

I have only used this whetstone as a finisher using water and lather. The whetstone does not appear to self-slurry so the underside is used with a very light slurry developed with a 1k diamond plate. The topside is used without any slurry and has developed a slight burnishing of about 50%.

For cutting speed, I find it takes about 2 to 3 time the number of laps that I would normally require when using 1μm lapping film (coming from 3μm film). This means that a lot of work is required with my harder stainless steel SRs. For me, all this work is worth it.

It has taken me quite a while to learn how to get the best out of this Adaee but I feel that I am about there. My stainless steel SRs make up about a third of my stable. On these stainless steel SRs, this Adaee #12000 gives me an edge that well matches my 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa strop edges and a finish that is more comfortable to shave with. The bevel surface from the Adaee has an ever-so slight hazy finish compared to the mirror finish from the balsa.

With carbon steel SRs, I find edges from this Adaee not quite up to the keenness of the pasted balsa and having about the same shaving comfort level.

I am now at the point where I will be finishing all of my stainless steel SRs on this Adaee #12000. My cardon steel SRs will continue to be finished on diamond pasted balsa or vintage coticule.

 

[Timeclo]

I got the Adaee Cnat stone recently this week. The first impression was that it's very hard and dense, maybe resembling a slate.

The back surface had some impurities and inclusions but the front surface as mostly fine. Couple chips towards the edges but I was able to chamfer them out.

Took a while to get it flat.. maybe an hour of lapping with my 600. Surface feels very fine and I don't get a lot of feedback on it. It slurries up pretty slow but produces a nice white milky slurry. I haven't honed on it much but I'll be experimenting more with it.

 

[Christian1212]

I use to have one when I first started. Got okay edges and sold it after I got a nice jnat. I probably could have gotten better edges as I was still learning how to hone at the time. Was an 8x2 I think

 

[rbscebu]

I got the Adaee Cnat stone recently this week. The first impression was that it's very hard and dense, maybe resembling a slate.

The back surface had some impurities and inclusions but the front surface as mostly fine. Couple chips towards the edges but I was able to chamfer them out.

Took a while to get it flat.. maybe an hour of lapping with my 600. Surface feels very fine and I don't get a lot of feedback on it. It slurries up pretty slow but produces a nice white milky slurry. I haven't honed on it much but I'll be experimenting more with it.

Knowing that most natural whetstones can be a bit of a hit or miss affair, I would be interested to learn how you find your Adaee #12000 after you work it out.

The Adaee was my first and only natural whetstone for many months so I had plenty of time to learn how to use it. After many laps I find that I am getting stiction even with the lightest of pressure. It is then that I move on to using lather with it until the stiction again start to raise its head. Yes, it takes time, alot of time, to get the edge I am chasing but I find it worth the effort.

My natural whetstone collection is budget limited. I only have three naturals to play with; the Adaee, a 180mm x 40mm x 20mm vintage coticule/BB and one marked YJ that is 185mm x 60mm x 15mm. The YJ is a mid-range stone feeling like about 5k. The rest of my whetstones are synthetic, some good and some not so good.

 

[Timeclo]

Knowing that most natural whetstones can be a bit of a hit or miss affair, I would be interested to learn how you find your Adaee #12000 after you work it out.

The Adaee was my first and only natural whetstone for many months so I had plenty of time to learn how to use it. After many laps I find that I am getting stiction even with the lightest of pressure. It is then that I move on to using lather with it until the stiction again start to raise its head. Yes, it takes time, alot of time, to get the edge I am chasing but I find it worth the effort.

My natural whetstone collection is budget limited. I only have three naturals to play with; the Adaee, a 180mm x 40mm x 20mm vintage coticule/BB and one marked YJ that is 185mm x 60mm x 15mm. The YJ is a mid-range stone feeling like about 5k. The rest of my whetstones are synthetic, some good and some not so good.

I'm currently practicing on my Jnat pocket stone so I'll be trying out the Cnat a little later.

I did want to get this stone early on but I've heard some mixed reviews on Cnats in general, in that they're not 12k and can chip edges. I'll test it out for myself but I have good first impression of it so far.

It kind of reminds me of a harder Arkansas stone but harder and finer. I also have a slate coming in so that'll be a good comparison.

 

[Timeclo]

Testing out the Adaee Cnat for finishing purposes. Honed up my razor with my coticule upto the finishing state and then used the Cnat with light slurry to finish the razor. My findings were that the Cnat did not improve the edge but dulled it down slightly. It did mute the feedback as well but I could not find any improvements so far. I think I did around 150 laps both times and I was left with the same result.

I'll be honing again tomorrow with similar setup but finish with water only. The Cnat is very hard to the touch and it has a nice feedback to it. If it sticks, I might try a little soap to make it slicker.

 

[rbscebu]

@Timeclo thank you for the feedback. I use a slurry developed with diamond plate on one side. Then I switch to the other side and use water only followed by lather for the finish.

So far, I find that my harder steels (stainless steels) perform better off the Cnat. My carbon steels are better off my coticule. That of course could be due to my honing technique.

 

[buserror]

I have one of these ADAEE stone, that's the only finishing stone I had before I got 3M film. Before I read your topic, my impression was that it wasn't really 12k, more like perhaps 10k... my 3M 'pink' film appears to be more mirror like after a few passes.
Not sure if I'm using it wrong, I just wet it. There is some suction, but strangely the suction diseapears after a while... I used a cheap $10 razor on it for a good hundred laps to help 'bed' it, thinking that perhaps it needs some priming, not sure.

Mine is very very flat, so I've been using it as a base for 3M film, it's really excellent at that job BTW, the film is like glued to it once you wet the stone and slide the film on it...
I've been pondering using some other slurry stone to use it as a base as well, since it's so hard...

I've now got a Thuringian and a Coticule in the mail to me, so soon I'll be able to compare and experiment.

 

[Herrenberg]

I have one of these ADAEE stone, that's the only finishing stone I had before I got 3M film. Before I read your topic, my impression was that it wasn't really 12k, more like perhaps 10k... my 3M 'pink' film appears to be more mirror like after a few passes.

Mirror finish is not a good way to compare naturals with synthetics on grit. Synthetics, being much more uniform in grit, are much more likely to produce a mirror finish. Naturals tend to produce a cloudy haze.

 

[rbscebu]

Mirror finish is not a good way to compare naturals with synthetics on grit. Synthetics, being much more uniform in grit, are much more likely to produce a mirror finish. Naturals tend to produce a cloudy haze.

I concur. I can get a true mirror finish using synthetics. With the Adaee #12000, the best I can do looks wise is the faintest of hazy finish. Both finishes shave just as well as each other. The Cnat feels just a little more comfortable.

Effort wise, synthetics are much easier to hone with (faster). The Cnat really takes some effort (time). Fortunately I have the time. My harder stainless steel blades seem to benefit the most from the Cnat finish. My carbon steel blades seem to prefer pasted balsa or the coticule finish. Of course, that could just be because of my honing techniques.

 

[Timeclo]

I've tried the Adaee Cnat 6 times now and I wasn't able to improve the edge any of the time. I did feel that it was a slow cutter but only thing that I noticed was that it muted the edge and didn't change much to the keenness of it. I tried sharpening my pocket knife as well and didn't notice any difference. I did multiple half strokes to speed up the process but didn't notice any difference to the edge, maybe dulling slightly.

I want to enjoy this stone but it's not showing me anything right now. It's weird because the stone is very dense and hard, nice feedback with slurry, and glassy feedback with water. I might keep it around for test later or pass it on. For now, I'll be back to my coticule and Arks.

 

[JPO]

I've tried the Adaee Cnat 6 times now and I wasn't able to improve the edge any of the time. I did feel that it was a slow cutter but only thing that I noticed was that it muted the edge and didn't change much to the keenness of it. I tried sharpening my pocket knife as well and didn't notice any difference. I did multiple half strokes to speed up the process but didn't notice any difference to the edge, maybe dulling slightly.

I want to enjoy this stone but it's not showing me anything right now. It's weird because the stone is very dense and hard, nice feedback with slurry, and glassy feedback with water. I might keep it around for test later or pass it on. For now, I'll be back to my coticule and Arks.

I do not have this type of stone. However, there is not allot of stones that work well with slurry. Most of the time, especially with slow and hard stones the slurry will just round the apex. You get this effect even with jnats if the slurry density is not right.

Slates, La lunes etc also give this slurry dulling effect to varying degrees. The slurry does not brake down. If the stone is not fast enough to make up for the slurry dulling, you end up with a dull edge. Some coticules do this as well.

 

[buserror]

I had a play earlier, I made a very very slight slurry on that stone using a coticule slurry stone. I mean, barelly anything. Then I proceeded to lap the razor (a Bengall) on the stone in that puddle.

To my surprise, after 20 or so laps, the razor started to *sing* -- not ping or anything, really singing. there was a bit of suction to the stone too. I rinsed the stone and continued lapping with running water only, and it continued to sing. Quite fun!
The edge now looks lovely. We'll see tomorrow if it shaves!

 

[rbscebu]

After learning how to use my black Arkansas whetstone, I am thinking of doing the same with my Adaee #12000. By that I mean;

• lapping flat with SiC powder,
• progressing up with W&D to 600 grit on one side, and
• progressing up with W&D to 1k grit W&D on the other side.

I will then see how it compares against the black Ark on both normal hardness carbon steel blades and harder stainless steel blades. They may be similar as they are both very hard slow-cutting whetstones.

 

[Scrubby]

For €30 i had to give it a try. @rbscebu, you talked me into it. Low-cost natural finisher that seems to work well. Ordered the stone 29 Dec, received it 2 Jan. First flattened the stone, than used it on 2 razors to “refinish”. Shaved twice on the first one, did not use the second one yet. Works well. Better/ less harsh face feel compared to my Naniwa 12k. I will keep using it. Verdict: Recommended

 

[rbscebu]

A few days ago I was give about 50ml of soluble oil. This is enough, when mixed with water, to make 1 litre of honing lubricant. Over today and tomorrow, I am going to see if finishing on the Adaee #12000 with soluble oil lubricant is an improvement over my normal water only followed by lather as my lubricants.

This morning I pulled out a Titan ACRO T.H.64 SR that had been finished on my Adaee #12000. Before my morning shave with this SR, I gave it a light refresh to make sure all was good. This light refresh involved about 10 laps using water before stiction became evident. I then switch to lather and found stiction within about 20 laps. Stropped and shaved. All was good.

This afternoon I prepared this Titan SR for tomorrow morning's shave. First was a few laps on the Adaee #12000 with lather. Stiction again came into play at about 15 laps. I then rinsed the stone and applied some soluble oil solution.

With the soluble oil solution, it took over 150 laps before stiction raised its head and I stopped. Honing with soluble oil on the Adaee #12000 feels good and looks promising. Tomorrow's shave test with this SR will tell.

I wonder if there is any improvement.

 

[rbscebu]

This morning I shaved with Adaee 12k finished Titan ACRO T.H.64 but this time finished with a soluble oil solution lubricant on the stone. I was feeling that there might be a noticeable improvement in the blade's edge quality like I experienced with my vintage coticule/BB and a carbon steel blade.

I found that there was no really noticeable improvement, maybe a slight improvement but nothing to write home about. I will continue to use the soluble oil solution as a lubricant on this stone as I like the feel when honing.

One day I might try the same comparison using a carbon steel blade.

 

[Mitzie]

I noticed a noticeable improvement of my Adaee 12K when I introduces a Tam O'Shanter slurry, using water, generated by a small (1/4" x 4") jewellers polishing stone purchased on ebay for £10. Using the TAM as a nigura

 

[javast]

After learning how to use my black Arkansas whetstone, I am thinking of doing the same with my Adaee #12000. By that I mean;

• lapping flat with SiC powder,
• progressing up with W&D to 600 grit on one side, and
• progressing up with W&D to 1k grit W&D on the other side.

I will then see how it compares against the black Ark on both normal hardness carbon steel blades and harder stainless steel blades. They may be similar as they are both very hard slow-cutting whetstones.

I lapped my (new) Adaee #12000 flat with (coarse, #60 or #80) SiC today on glass. I continued on both sides with #320 Aluminum oxide powder, and finally with the 1000 side of my YJSHARP 1/6 combination stone that I got for free. The YJSHARP was, itself, also lapped flat on glass with both SiC and Aluminum Oxide powder before putting them together.

The SiC made quick work of flattening the 12k. The Aluminum Oxide abraded well too. The YJSHARP (which I assume to be a ceramic Aluminum oxide stone) abraded it also quite easily, from which I conclude the 12k is fair bit softer, which is no real surprise. The SiC and Aluminum Oxide left a pretty rough surface on the 12k. Rubbing the 1000 side got the surface pretty smooth again, but as the stone dried, I see that quite a few scratches from the SiC are left. My intuition is that the cnat is soft enough that some care should be taken to avoid damaging the surface - if I had it to do over, I would have skipped the SiC, and gone straight to the finer grit. Note, I had coarse SiC, if you have a finer grade, your results may differ, but I would caution against using overly aggressive grits: Its not necessary, and may be detrimental.

 

[FairlySlow]

The purpose of this thread is to obtain other's experience of honing with their Adaee #12000 Cnat whetstone, if you have/had one. There are plenty of other Cnats out there but I would prefer if this thread is restricted to the Adaee #12000 whetstone.

I received my Adaee #12000 a little over five months ago (about US$40 incl. shipping). It is 200mm x 75mm x 30mm with an SG = 2.77. Here is as received:

View attachment 1551730

View attachment 1551733
​

After lapping flat and quite a few honing sessions, it is now looking like this:

View attachment 1551732
Dry

View attachment 1551731
Wet
​

I have found this whetstone to be noticeably finer than my 10k Jsynth but a very slow cutter. I also consider it a splash and go type of stone with almost no water absorption.

I have only used this whetstone as a finisher using water and lather. The whetstone does not appear to self-slurry so the underside is used with a very light slurry developed with a 1k diamond plate. The topside is used without any slurry and has developed a slight burnishing of about 50%.

For cutting speed, I find it takes about 2 to 3 time the number of laps that I would normally require when using 1μm lapping film (coming from 3μm film). This means that a lot of work is required with my harder stainless steel SRs. For me, all this work is worth it.

It has taken me quite a while to learn how to get the best out of this Adaee but I feel that I am about there. My stainless steel SRs make up about a third of my stable. On these stainless steel SRs, this Adaee #12000 gives me an edge that well matches my 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa strop edges and a finish that is more comfortable to shave with. The bevel surface from the Adaee has an ever-so slight hazy finish compared to the mirror finish from the balsa.

With carbon steel SRs, I find edges from this Adaee not quite up to the keenness of the pasted balsa and having about the same shaving comfort level.

I am now at the point where I will be finishing all of my stainless steel SRs on this Adaee #12000. My cardon steel SRs will continue to be finished on diamond pasted balsa or vintage coticule.

I have a question. Have you seen the DMD diamond stones on aliexpress. Id be super interested in how they are if you ever try them. Considering trying one sometime maybe