opinions on "heavy correction" stone

[Edo]

Hi everyone,

I need a stone to eliminate chips visible to the naked eye. I was evaluating the Shapton Pro 320. Do you have any advice/opinions?

 

[driftwood]

Personally when an edge is bad enough for me to start think 'reprofile' I look to my very well used diamond plate. I've never considered buying a hone specific for the purpose (partly because the War Department gets a little finicky when I buy rocks. . . . Especially at some of the prices, lol).

Any lower grit hone that removes metal fairly quickly and doesn't require a second morgage on your house should work.

At the point where you are trying to correct significant edge damage you are signed up for a lot of work later anyways regardless of what you use.

The way I do it is to actually lift the spine off the hone and actually use a reverse stroke back and forth (spine held approximately at 70-80 degrees from the hone) like a stroppibg motion. That way I'm not removing metal from the spine as well (provided that's what the project calls for).

 

[DrVK]

diamond plate for heavy lifting is highly recommended, 325 is a good starting point. I would not go any coarser

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

How large the chips are? Can you be a bit more specific? Maybe post a photo?

Also, what low grit stones do you already own?

 

[Saloogie]

I use this carborundum type lapping stone. It came in a cheap knife sharpening kit, but it'll do the job you want.

 

[helicopter]

+1 for edge trailing strokes near perpendicular on a diamond plate. Start by using calipers or a straight edge to layout where you're going to remove material. I would only do this in severe cases where the amount of material to be removed is >2mm. Anything less, I would just hone out with some tape, and if it is less than 1mm, I would also keep it over 800 grit and just work it for a while.

 

[Steve56]

I’m using a 400 Naniwa diamond stone. It’s fast and produces fewer deep scratches than a diamond plate. I start Gold Dollars on it these days. I prefer it to the 320 Shapton Glass or the 325 DMT.

 

[Saloogie]

I use this carborundum type lapping stone. It came in a cheap knife sharpening kit, but it'll do the job you want.View attachment 1990483

Ooops, I misread the thread. The above IS NOT good for taking out those chips. To rough. Sorry.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

It depends on the size of the chip and how deep in the bevel it goes. For a lot of edge profiling I use diamonds, most any diamond plate in the 3-600 grit will work, but recently I have been using the Sharpal 325/1200 plate with good results. Some say Sharpal has the most uniform grit distribution of all the diamond plates on the market, and not expensive for a dual grit plate about $60, but most diamond plates work.

For tools, with very large chips, chisels and plane irons I use the Sharpal 140 lapping plate to quickly reprofile an edge on tools.

You can remove a lot of steel on a razor edge quickly (the edge is thin) with just a 1k stone, (use the back) if you use high angle honing, where you hold the spine off the stone and the razor at about 75-80 degrees edge trailing, count you strokes and do the same on the other side.

Once you get to the bottom of the chip, then do a few laps at about 45 degrees to remove the corners and save a bit of time honing. Then tape the spine with 2 layers of electrical tape and set the bevel. Once you have the bevel set, then you can remove one layer or both and re set the bevel in about 20 laps.

If you will be removing a lot of steel 1/8” or more it is a good idea to take some measurements and mark a line with a sharpie as a guide, it is easy to remove too much steel and make the razor look wonky. A pair of inexpensive plastic calipers are invaluable for measuring.

Also, if you remove a lot of steel and the razor has a stabilizer, you will likely need to re-profile the heel to get the razor to sit flat on the hone.

If the chip is from impact damage, the damage often goes much deeper than the bottom of the chip. So don’t be surprised if after the razor is honed and has been stropped a couple of times that you get some micro chipping, if enough steel has not been removed.

A great stone for all-around hogging off steel for knives is the Shapton 500 and they are not expensive.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Another option for edge chip removal is a Diamond file. You can buy them for a few dollars and invaluable for removing an edge prior to working on a razor, (600/1k) cleaning, hand-sanding, polishing or buffing and for chip removal and heel reprofiling.

One or two swipes make a razor edge safe.

There are inexpensive ones $10-15 and Sharpal also makes an excellent dual grit 325/1200 for about $20

 

[helicopter]

I’m using a 400 Naniwa diamond stone. It’s fast and produces fewer deep scratches than a diamond plate. I start Gold Dollars on it these days. I prefer it to the 320 Shapton Glass or the 325 DMT.

I have one of those. What's the rest of the current Gold Dollar progression?

 

[Steve56]

I have one of those. What's the rest of the current Gold Dollar progression?

Usually a 1 or 2k Shapton Glass HR, a 4k Glass HR, a 10k Suehiro Kouseki with a little shiro slurry (keeps the stone from loading), and a JNat finisher.

My regular maintenance progression is the same from 4k up. If the edge is really good, just the Kouseki and JNat.

 

[cugel]

Low as I will go ona razor is Naniwa Gouken 400.

 

[psfred]

I have a King Deluxe 300 I occasionally use, but I don't like anything that coarse for razors. Heavy work usually gets done on a Bester 600.

 

[Gamma]

Not into diamond plates for this work. Maybe I'd choose one to cut down a GD spine but for simple chips in good steel the Shapton Pro 320 works well and the impact it leaves cleans up easily and doesn't leave much of a fingerprint behind.
When we start 'digging' into a blade like this, wear and deformation mechanisms can leave unseen artifacts. Someone might not want to care about things at this level but I do. People just looking to 'get it done' are usually only focused on speed though. Horses for courses, they say.
The Shapton Pro/Glass 220x will cut significantly faster than the 320x with most steels. The 220 is softer will wear more.
But, typically, I will use the Nani Pro 600 for a lot of this stuff - less invasive, more than fast enough usually. At one time I had the Chosera 400x also. Great option.
The trick is to not do all the removal work on one single grit. Do about 1/2 and then go up a grit. This sneaks up on the edge, without wasting steel. Takes longer though.
Personally, I'd prefer to take more time, go slower, and be easier on the steel. There's a lot going on in the structure of that material. Pays to pay attention sometimes.

 

[JPO]

I just use an Atoma 1200 for heavy correction work. I usually transition to a 1k/1.5 k shapton before I am done on the 1200.
For really heavy lifting I use a shapton glass 500.
Even when the visible striations are gone, you still have strain hardened more brittle steel below this level. This can show up as micro chips later on during final finish.
So, I will generally choose to spend a little more time on a slightly finer stone in the beginning.

It might sound silly, but every blade has it's own personality. So, i like to use some time to sneak up on the profile that suits that particular blade the best. With coarse stones you loose allot of feedback.

 

[natto]

heavy correction​

I like razors to be easy to sharpen. My aim is a spine corresponding to the edge, at the desired sharpening angle. Every part of the edge should be easy to reach. So heavy correction is progression from fast metal removal to fine tuning to me.

Bonded diamond plates are hard and flat. The hard surface allows me to adress precise where material is removed. And it tends to build new facettes at the grinding spot, easy to check.

My Venev 400/1000 is faster than the Shapton 500. And I like the combination of fast and precise. But Venev is hard to find now.

 

[Edo]

I like razors to be easy to sharpen. My aim is a spine corresponding to the edge, at the desired sharpening angle. Every part of the edge should be easy to reach. So heavy correction is progression from fast metal removal to fine tuning to me.

Bonded diamond plates are hard and flat. The hard surface allows me to adress precise where material is removed. And it tends to build new facettes at the grinding spot, easy to check.

My Venev 400/1000 is faster than the Shapton 500. And I like the combination of fast and precise. But Venev is hard to find now.

Thanks!

 

[jj_sharp]

I am currently removing a big chip using only a barber's home, 3 laps every week. The chip is almost gone at 1.25 years x 52 weeks/year x 3 laps/week. That is about 200 laps.

I conjecture that a non-professional sharpener does not to have the best stone. 200 laps would not take very long, but might take too long for a pro trying to make $$.

 

[Edo]

It depends on the size of the chip and how deep in the bevel it goes. For a lot of edge profiling I use diamonds, most any diamond plate in the 3-600 grit will work, but recently I have been using the Sharpal 325/1200 plate with good results. Some say Sharpal has the most uniform grit distribution of all the diamond plates on the market, and not expensive for a dual grit plate about $60, but most diamond plates work.

For tools, with very large chips, chisels and plane irons I use the Sharpal 140 lapping plate to quickly reprofile an edge on tools.

You can remove a lot of steel on a razor edge quickly (the edge is thin) with just a 1k stone, (use the back) if you use high angle honing, where you hold the spine off the stone and the razor at about 75-80 degrees edge trailing, count you strokes and do the same on the other side.

Once you get to the bottom of the chip, then do a few laps at about 45 degrees to remove the corners and save a bit of time honing. Then tape the spine with 2 layers of electrical tape and set the bevel. Once you have the bevel set, then you can remove one layer or both and re set the bevel in about 20 laps.

If you will be removing a lot of steel 1/8” or more it is a good idea to take some measurements and mark a line with a sharpie as a guide, it is easy to remove too much steel and make the razor look wonky. A pair of inexpensive plastic calipers are invaluable for measuring.

Also, if you remove a lot of steel and the razor has a stabilizer, you will likely need to re-profile the heel to get the razor to sit flat on the hone.

If the chip is from impact damage, the damage often goes much deeper than the bottom of the chip. So don’t be surprised if after the razor is honed and has been stropped a couple of times that you get some micro chipping, if enough steel has not been removed.

A great stone for all-around hogging off steel for knives is the Shapton 500 and they are not expensive.

Wow, lot of good advices. Thanks!