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Newbie Desperately in Need of Assistance to get an Acceptable Shave

Hi all,

I have considered registering on here, and creating this thread for quite some time, but decided not to until I had my first experience shaving with a DE razor.

To provide some background, I'm not new to shaving (I'm 32 and have to shave at least every weekday for work), but to date, I've always used a Gillette cartridge razor (I've had the Mach 3, Mach 3 Turbo and most recently had been using the Fusion Power Proglide). The cartridges are obviously expensive, but my primary reason for looking for an alternative method is no matter what I did, or how hard I tried, I could not get a close shave. I consider a close shave not being able to clearly see whiskers after shaving, and that's consistently been the case. I typically shave in the shower (with a mirror, obviously) but have tried shavingafter showering, too, with no discernible difference in results. Even to get a shave to the closeness I did, I had to go nearly completely ATG; if I simply went WTG, a tiny bit of hair might have been removed, but it would be difficult to notice any difference. Obviously, going ATG so frequently led to considerable razor burn on my neck and many nicks below my nose. After shaving, my cheek areas would feel pretty close to BBS, but if you felt ATG, or more importantly, just looked at my cheeks, neck or under my nose, you could easily tell the results were nowhere close to ideal.

After trying a couple of different things (using the Art of Shaving shaving cream, though without a brush, and using a pre shave oil), my search for a solution led me here and to the concept of shaving with a DE razor. Before trying it, I read nearly, if not all, the beginner information, as well as watched an extensive amount of videos of shaving with a safety razor on Youtube (ShaveNation, in particular). Before purchasing more expensive equipment beyond the time and money I'd already spent on this, I opted for the trial size shaving products at The Art of Shaving (shave oil, shave cream, small badger brush and after shave). My results weren't any different using these products with my Fusion Power Proglide; all it got me was spending more time than I had been due to preparing the lather. At this point, I decided it was finally time to give a DE razor a try.

Fortunately, my dad happened to have a Hoffritz safety razor laying around that he hadn't used in a long time, and he let me borrow it to see how I did before sinking even more money in to my own DE razor and the associated products. The only place I could readily find DE blades was at Meijer (grocery store), and while they were sold as Meijer brand, I've read on here that they're made by another company and rebranded. I spent a couple of hours today rereading or rewatching much of what I had previously read or watched; particularly, I tried to pay close attention to how the razor should be held. So, I soaked my AOS brush in a bowl of hot, but not boiling, water, showered, dumped the water out of the bowl, squirted a small amount (I shot for an almond size) of the AOS shaving cream in the bowl, got some, but not all, of the water out of my brush (I gave it a half pinch and let it stop dripping) and begin creating the lather, and eventually, putting it on my face. Well, to say the results from my first shave were disastrous would be an understatement. I focused exclusively on north to south cuts, and to my amazement, I wasn't getting any closer a shave than I had been with my cartridge razor; honestly, it probably wasn't even as close. To make matters far worse, I successfully managed to slice, nick or whatever you want to call it, several parts of my facial area; it wasn't so much around the cheeks, but on my chin and all over my neck. So, to summarize, I had to stop shaving to prevent any further damage, the areas I did get barely look like they've been shaved, and I have blood and red spots all over my chin and especially my neck. After all the time and energy I've spent trying to fix this problem, I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am right now.

To give you an idea of what I feel may have at least partially contributed to today's results, my lather consistently looks less "creamy" from what I see in videos; to me, that means I have too much water in the bowl, but I tried to do exactly what others have suggested without success. When I put the lather on, it's nowhere near as thick as I see on pictures or videos, so I'm sure that's one issue. As I mentioned, I tried my best to hold the razor at the proper angle and apply as little pressure as humanly possible, but considering this was my first attempt, I'm sure I did neither properly.

I gather from reading many of the posts, tutorials and videos that shaving with a DE razor will be a big transition for someone switching from a cartridge razor, but I certainly cannot afford results like today again. Fortunately, I am working from home today, so the only "people" seeing me until my wife gets home are my dogs, but if I had to go to the office like this, I'd be beyond embarrassed and would probably get plenty of questions as to what in the heck I did to myself. I'm really hoping you can give me some practical tips on how I can successfully shave my face without 1). noticeable stubble afterwards and 2). slicing myself to death, as I did today.

Thank you very much in advance.
 
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First, welcome to B&B

The long answer to your problems seems to be.....

  1. You are pressing too hard. You should let a DE glide over your face using short rapid strokes (not speedy gonzoles fast but not slow mowing motions).
  2. You do not mention if you are stretching your face. You should use your free hand and pull up at your sideburns to stretch that area, puff air into your cheeks to stretch that area, and place your hand on your chest and pull down, moving around to stay under where you are shaving.
  3. Just like the rapid motions don't need to be lightning fast pulling does not need to be snare drum tight, just keep your skin taught.
  4. Also you need to hold a DE razor at a 30-35 degree angle. Place the razor on your face with the head flat and the handle sticking straight out. Then slowly drop the handle until you can feel the blade contact your face. That will be the proper angle you need to hold your razor.
  5. To help maintain a consistent angle lock your wrist and elbow and move your entire arm as one solid block. This may seem awkward at first but it is the easiest way to maintain the angle as if you flick your wrist you are changing the angle as you move your razor. Moving from the shoulder with a large mass makes it difficult to change the angle of the razor during the stoke.


The short answer is: Work on your shaving technique :001_smile
 
Drawing blood is usually a result of too much pressure and/or improper blade angle. You want no pressure, and I'll find a link to a recent thread that had a great example of blade angle.
 
First, welcome to B&B

The long answer to your problems seems to be.....

  1. You are pressing too hard. You should let a DE glide over your face using short rapid strokes (not speedy gonzoles fast but not slow mowing motions).
  2. You do not mention if you are stretching your face. You should use your free hand and pull up at your sideburns to stretch that area, puff air into your cheeks to stretch that area, and place your hand on your chest and pull down, moving around to stay under where you are shaving.
  3. Just like the rapid motions don't need to be lightning fast pulling does not need to be snare drum tight, just keep your skin taught.
  4. Also you need to hold a DE razor at a 30-35 degree angle. Place the razor on your face with the head flat and the handle sticking straight out. Then slowly drop the handle until you can feel the blade contact your face. That will be the proper angle you need to hold your razor.
  5. To help maintain a consistent angle lock your wrist and elbow and move your entire arm as one solid block. This may seem awkward at first but it is the easiest way to maintain the angle as if you flick your wrist you are changing the angle as you move your razor. Moving from the shoulder with a large mass makes it difficult to change the angle of the razor during the stoke.


The short answer is: Work on your shaving technique :001_smile

+1

It will take practice. It is awkward at first, but remember to hold the razor at the based of the handle with your thumb and first two fingers, with the head resting against your face. This forces you to use little or no pressure, which almost always is the cause for cuts and razor burn.

Take heart, it gets natural with practice. Be patient with yourself. If you are concerned about going to work all cut up, as a last resort I would suggest only DE shave on the weekends, though this will lengthen your learning curve. Do whatever it takes, because it truly is worth it, and in no time you'll find yourself looking forward to shaving. :thumbup1:
 
Welcome to B&B. Good advice from Turtle here.

I'll add that you need to map the direction of your beard growth and only shave WTG and XTG while you're learning to us a DE. Shaving is all about beard reduction so you want that WTG first (this is where knowing the direction of your beard growth comes in), relather and do another WTG and then finish with a XTG. You may not get quite as close of a shave as you were with carts but that will come with experience. It sounds like what you're getting is a lot of tugging which causes "weepers" which aren't actually cuts but they bleed and hurt like them. It's like the whisker gets loosened and then bleeds around it. The tugging will go away with proper reduction, shaving in the right direction and, like Turtle said, pressure.

You'll also want to work on your lather technique. Like you said, sounds like you used too much water but you may need to whip it a little longer too. There is definitely a sweet spot between too much and too little water.

Don't get discouraged, just let your face heal for a couple days before revisiting the DE. When you're ready, just relax and have fun with it!
 
+1 to turtle's comments....your results sound similar to mine when I first started out.

A couple of other things to think about too...you may get widely different results from trying other blades or razors, but it's probably best to focus your efforts for the first month on technique. Also, try letting the lather sit on your face for a minute or two before you begin. Look at some threads on beard mapping - i, like many others, have a couple of areas where my beard grows in different directions, and i have to adapt my passes accordingly.
 
I'm sorry to hear that your first experience was far less than stellar. That wasn't the case for me, and as I'm in my first month of shaving, I'm not super experienced, but I've quickly developed my technique and have been getting very consistent shaves for 2 of the 3 weeks I've been wet shaving with a DE.

1) Considering you're seemingly prone to nicks and irritation, look into a pre-shave oil. I'm not talking about a branded type. On the wiki here there are links about what the purpose is and what some users blends are. I myself found Castor oil in my house. It smells.... less than favorable but not fowl. The idea of an oil is not to provide slickness but to increase the amount of wetness held in your pores, there-in making your skin more "supple" and moist so that it's more flexible to the firm metal of the blade.

2) Slow down if you're rushing. My first shaves took me like 40 minutes with the lathering wetting face re-lathering and just generally taking my time.

3) Blade angle. If you're not seeing the whiskers come off cleanly and you're getting irritated, it sounds like your blade angle may be too steep. At first, I took my razor and put the top most part to my fast, without either edge touching my face. I would then roll it town (not moving the placement yet just rolling towards the edge), then I would do short strokes. You can clearly feel it not cutting at all, cutting harshly, cutting beautifully, then cutting harshly again in my experience.

4) I've started with 3 passes, but as of yesterday I did only 2 passes. I had about 40 hours of growth give or take and I went XtG ear to nose ( my hair grows weird so some spots doing this is actually against the grain, like my jaw line) and than against the grain for the second pass.

5) The chin and neck-meeting-jaw areas were my toughest spots to get super clean. Pulling your skin may help get those spots closer, but as a super noob to the game, I wouldn't recommend it yet. I would get quite reasonable shaves with whiskers only noticeable if feeling them with my hand rubbing ATG.

6) Learn the flow of your hair. This was the hardest thing for me. My hair grow more left to right (left side of face towards right) everywhere except my cheecks, and my neck on the left grows right-ward and down-ward, while the right part of my upper neck grows upwards and right-wards. Weird, I know, but really identifying your "grain" should help your get the smoothest of shaves and with experience it will happen in less and less time.

7) Use no pressure! My 3rd shave I started getting overly confident and really irritated myself but using pressure in spots while I shouldn't have.

Unfortunately, this is probably the extent of the pointers I can give you. Lathering is another beast and I don't quite have that down, but I feel that use the least amount of water as possible and spin/pump that brush. If that lather doesn't 'grow', add 1-3 drops of water at a time (literally DROPLETS of water). I watched alot of various shave videos on youtube, which I actually find enjoyable to watch for some reason lol. I watched Mantic59 vids (who is the most educational), a guy Paul H I believe who's a very cheery chap from England or somewhere in the UK, and a few guys from the Big Shave facebook group. The Paul H fellow seems to have growth similar to me, and watching his technique gave me ideas which I was able to use successfully and get my own shaves even better.

Again 3 weeks down the road my shaves could be better, but I don't aim for any better. They are smooth all over, consistent, and consistently without any irritation.

Within 1 week though, my shaves were becoming better and better. And IMO my 1st DE shave was better than any cartridge razor shave (mach3 shick quattro or fusion bladed shave)

Hopefully my pointers have helped you. I'd definitely look into an oil. The one's noted in the wiki mentioned above are oils that are known to absorb well into your skin. I think jojoba (however that's spelled) is supposed to be nearly identical to the consistency of our natural skin-produced oils, but I have no experience with it.
 
Oh yea, if you have a Bed Bath and Beyond store near you they may have Wilkinson sword blades. I started with the drugstore (American made!) brand as well and they were great... at first. I recently got some swords and OH EM GEE the difference is night and day. SO those blades may not agree with your face. Good Luck !
 
Welcome to B&B.

You have been given some good advice, above. To help you out with the pressure issue take a look at this post and this wiki. Using these grips will help you keep the pressure off the razor and blade.
 
I would first echo what everyone else has said about pressure. That's the first thing that popped into my mind as I was reading about your problems, and is something that took me 3-4 months to really understand. No pressure means absolutely no pressure. Let the razor sit on your face and glide. If you do this correctly, you'll get no irritation no matter how many passes.

Also, I would encourage you to stick with it. Don't give up hope. I started off exactly like you. My first several weeks of shaves were horrible. I, like you, started by buying an AoS starter kit. I chose the Lemon scented travel kit. Let me tell you, the brush that comes with that kit is horrible. Though it is badger hair, it's very prickly and uncomfortable, and has so little backbone that making a lather is difficult and applying it to your face is even more difficult. The lemon cream and AS balm are pretty nice though.

I had my first revelation after buying a cheap Van Der Hagen brush from a local HEB. It's a much better brush.

So in summary, I would say watch your pressure, buy a better brush, and stick with it! It'll all be worth it soon!
 
Okay, lots to digest here. You say you've watched many videos and read many posts. I am assuming that you know about not applying too much pressure. It's sounds like you are
tearing up your face with your technique ( I could be wrong!). Here's what I would suggest ( and this may involve what you seem to want to avoid, which is spending some more money...sorry)

1. Post on the B/S/T that you want a Gillette Tech or Superspeed. User grade would be fine. You should be able to get something for under $15.00. These are good starter razors that are not too aggressive.

2. LEARN ABOUT BLADES. You need an assortment sampler of blades to experiment with to find what works for you. BLADES ARE IMPORTANT. There are lots of vendors that sell blade sampler packs. Also, don't over-use a blade. I wouldn't go more than 3 days on one blade.

3. The rest of your set-up (AOS cream, etc. ) seems fine. You may want to get some VDH Deluxe soap from Wal-Mart. It's cheap, non-irritating, and performs really well.

4. While taking a hot shower, wash your face and then apply hair conditioner to your whiskers for a few minutes. Rinse and get out. Shave at your sink. I think shower shaving always lends itself to doing it too quickly.

5. FACE LATHER. This is all I do (for over 35 yrs). Build the lather and exfoliate at the same time with your brush. Take a little longer than you think it should take to do this. Try for "slickness" with your lather. Dip the tip of that brush in water as you build the lather to assure you have a good mix of moisture. Also, don't be hesitant to hit the sopa or cream a little more with your brush if you need to. Basically, you don't want a thick but dry lather on your face. You will intuitively start learning the right mix. It's not rocket science.

6. Shave in the direction of your whisker growth (WTG), then rinse . Do the whole face lathering again, then shave across the grain (XTG). Then rinse and assess your face. It may look good enough. Your face has to be in pretty good shape to shave against the grain(ATG), which is basically south-to-north. You don't sound ready for that yet, but it will come.

7. Avoid irritating after shaves (high alcohol). Use a soothing after shave balm like Nivea Sensitive Skin. ( about $5.00 at WallyWorld)

8. Be patient. DE shaving requires better technique than cartridge shaving. The whole process should take about 10-15 minutes. If you rush through it in any way, your bound to lose focus and abuse your face. Like Aesop's fable, "slow and steady wins the race', or in your case, "slow and steady saves your face".

9. TECHNIQUE IS PARAMOUNT
10. DID I SAY TECHNIQUE IS PARAMOUNT ? :001_cool:

Don't lose faith. DE shaving is a journey and when you figure out which route to take, the journey gets not only easier, but enjoyable. It may seem hard to believe right now, but you will eventually look forward to shaving and wish you needed to do it more than once a day. I'm sure others will chime in with many diverse recommendations. I tried to keep it simple and affordable for you as best I could. Good luck!
 
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All,

Thank you very much for the welcome, as well as the fast and informative responses. I've long suspected it was technique, as literally millions used cartridge razors without too much complaint (unlike me), but turtle's post pretty much confirmed it (assuming the non-DE specific pointers apply to cartridge shaving, as well). Now that the blood has dried, the red spots on my neck have somewhat cleared up (it still burns pretty badly, though). I don't know if this will help confirm the things I did, or didn't, do wrong, but I have three spots that look like (or perhaps are) small scabs of dried blood (on my neck, on chip and at the bottom of my right cheek). As discouraged as I was, and still am to some extent, I'm willing to give it another try. There isn't anything I absolutely must shave for this weekend (I'm off work tomorrow), so when do you recommend the soonest I give it another try and implementing some of the above recommendations? Oh, and one final question (for now): is my shaving gear, aside from potentially the blades, as mentioned above, acceptable for someone completely new to DE shaving?
 
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Next time you are at your local grocery store look for Nivea Sensitive after shave balm (I'll stick a pic of what it looks like below so it is easier for you to find). this is a great, easy to find, product that works wonders on razor burn. It would be best to avoid razor burn but while you are starting out this product will keep you feeling better after your shave.

Your nicks and cuts are more than likely from your skin bunching up in front of the blade and being cut. Stretching should be the solution to this issue. You can also make "funny faces" to help stretch and keep your skin from rolling up in front of the blade.

Shaving is not all that hard. It just takes getting your technique down, then staying consistent.

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Sorry to hear about your bad shave. Stick with it! Less pressure and good blade angle is the mantra. Also, remember that you aren't trying to get a baby butt smooth shave on your first pass. Aim for hair reduction, not total removal. Give yourself two or three passes before you start to do touch-ups.

Turtle's Nivea is the best bet for quick relief if you still feel irritated. If you can skip a day or two's shave, try again Saturday.

I face lather with soaps, so I may not be the best guy to tell you about bowl lathering with cream, but your runny lather sounds like it has too much water and too little product. You don't need photoshoot quality lather, just something to protect your face. The peaks and meringue can wait. For now you want glossy and protective lather that does not run off or dry up. It is a bit of an art, but you'll know once you lock it in.

The main thing: stick to it! Check back in. You deserve good shaves!
 
Thanks again, everyone. You've mentioned some things that brought to mind some things I should have included in my initial post (not that it wasn't long enough :)). I actually do have the Van Der Hagen starter's kit; however, after I bought the AoS badger hair brush, I got rid of the VDH boar hair brush (because I thought it was inferior). Based on what I read above, that was apparently a mistake.

In any event, I do have the soap that came with it, along with everything else, and I have tried using the soap, but I'm confused about soap shaving. From the videos and pictures I've seen of preparing lather from soap, it looks like the soap has some water applied to it while it's in a bowl or container before coating the brush and then the lather is created in a separate bowl than the soap was in. If I'm correct, and I'm probably not, I don't have the first bowl/container I'm referring to; I either mistakenly threw it out without realizing it was something to keep or the VDH set doesn't come with that; all I have is the black and green bowl, which is what I've been attempting to use to create lather (with soap or cream).

Also, to clarify, while I mentioned I've previously shaved in the shower for the most part, with today's initial DE shave, I did so after showering. On shavervinnie's point about not wanting to spend any more money, that's not so much as the issue; the issue is that I don't want to spend any more money than I already have on something I either don't need or is something I'm not ready for at this point. I'd be happy to spend a fair amount of money for equipment if I knew it would give me the results I want, but based on the above, it sounds like that's mostly dependent on my technique. From what I gather, the supplies I have for now should suffice until I get the basics down with the possible exception of the AoS trial size brush, but please correct me if that's not right.

I will definitely pick up some of the Nivea sensitive after shave; that should be particularly good for me, as I've always felt I have sensitive skin.

Thanks again.
 
Rule #1: Never get rid of anything. Put it away for a while then bring it back out. If it still does not seem to work for you, put it away again. After several attempts without success spanning several months then consider letting it go.

Too many times I have been dissatisfied with an item, put it away, brought it back and found out it was fantastic and overshadowed everything else. It happens regularly.

When you use the Nivea. Use a very small pea sized dollop. A little bit goes a LONG way. If you use too much your face will feel sticky. You can always add a little more but it is hard to scrape it off of your face if you get to much (don't ask how I know this)

As far as soap or cream. Building a lather is a topic all to its own and one that is taken up several times a day on B&B.

There are many methods to build and apply lather. There is no one right way. Just find what works for you and then see if you can improve upon your lather everyday while sticking with your working method.

You don't need to shave when you are practicing building a lather. Just have at a practice lather if you get the urge during the day.

Pretty soon you will be able to whip up a lather large enough to shave the entire neighborhood with :001_smile

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Welcome to B&B!
I would work on your lather a bit without shaving. It will be worth it to waste a little bit of product to get more consistent and better results. Post some pictures here of what your lather looks like and what exactly you're using. The members here will be able to tell you if it's ok or where to improve. PM me your address if you're CONUS and I'll send you a mini sample of some blades that I have. Good Luck!
 
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