Mac Computers

[perry]

I haven't bought a computer of my own in 4 or 5 years.. For the past several, I've been able to adopt computers from work (damaged MB on this one, damaged screen on that one, keyboard from other there.. put one together and I use it). They're all HP machines.

From playing with OS X here and there, and Windows the other 99% of the time, I'd buy an Apple computer if I had to start buying computers again. OS X just feels so nice to me. Maybe because I support Windows stuff all the time and want something that (feels like it) just works.

Apple does not want to compete on price or be the largest volume seller. They want to produce a quality product. Sure, they could sell a ton of $500 laptops, but they wouldn't be as good as their $1000 one. The fit and finish of the Macbook just feels much nicer than the business line HP's my company buys.

 

[proxymoron]

+1 Aesthetics matter.

 

[instpasr]

Something about a computer housed in aluminum makes it seem more pleasing to the eye. I look at upon my wifes plastic hp in disgust, probably because I have to fix something on it weekly. My MBP just works every time.

 

[csmorris]

Once you go Mac, you never go back.

+1

 

[DFrancis]

Once you go Mac, you never go back.

Actually, I'm probably going back, SWMBO got a Toshiba with windows 7 and she finds it as intuitive as OS X. If they were the same price i would go for a Mac but I don't find the premium worth it. (though I am still using an iBook G4, good enough for B&B, email and lols)

 

[Sir Ronald]

Speaking from a hardware perspective, there is no such thing as a "mac computer". They use virtually the same components you will find in any Windows-based PC. In fact, Mac pays a premium to various hardware manufacturers (like Intel) to avoid advertising this fact, such as with an "Intel Inside" sticker on the computers.

To highlight this point, you can install the Mac OS on an Intel-based PC and it will run perfectly fine. I know several people who like the Mac OS but not the Mac price-tag, so they bought Windows-based PCs with better hardware specs for a fraction of the cost and installed the Mac OS to them. Instead of paying $1200+ for a comparable (or lesser) machine, they paid $400-500.

IMO, 9/10ths of the cost of a Mac is brand-name and to cover their advertising budget.

As for wanting to wait for the 'latest model'; sorry, but there is no such thing. A big part of their business platform relies on releasing minor hardware updates (some of which people suspect are intentionally held back) every few months and calling the same product a "new generation", knowing that people will line up around the block to buy it. Look at the iPad. One of the biggest gripes consumers had was that it did not feature a web-cam. Yet when the boys at Mission Repair opened one up to see how it works, what did they find? An internal port, empty and unused, that perfectly fit the Apple iCam. What do you want to bet iPad 2 will come with a cam? [Source]

I’m not trying to dissuade you from buying a Mac. Lots of people love the OS, and that’s just fine. I simply advocate consumer awareness.

the kind of "scare tactic yet a polite forum post" that does nothing to hide your agenda. lets not mince words here, you're advising the OP to not buy a Mac desktop or Mac laptop. you can disguise it as nicely as you want but your motive is clear.

its the same old argument the PC users whenever they see a Mac thread. bang on about price and closed source content. ignore purchasing a computer that requires zero maintenance, anti-virus software, malware, trojans. and if there is a flaw to be exposed... zero in on it. the brand new iPad has no camera..... I'm not really sure what that has to do with purchasing an iMac, Mac Pro or Macbook, but its enough reason to dissuade the OP

to highlight my point: you can install Mac OS X on any PC and it will run fine. that's simply not true. should Hackintosh be the stock standard for all PC's? if I'm not up to date with installing MAC OS X on a Windows PC and if there is an easier way, forgive me. but I'm sure I would have heard about the ease of doing so on one of the many forums by now.

as for "the latest model" - there IS such thing, its the latest type of Imac or MacBook with the current operating system. don't make it sound more confusing than it is. the updates Apple send to the OS are free. if you like your 3GS iPhone and are powerless to buying the Iphone 4, who's fault is that? are you trying to defend the powerlessness of the dumb arse consumer here, while at the same time stick up for their rights?

the latest computer is not the be all and end all of computing. in fact buying a reasonably up to date Mac is enough for most consumers. when I decided to buy an Imac (late 2006) I bought a 2.16ghz white version with 2gig RAM and 250g HD. 4 years later, here I am still happy with my Imac with the latest version of Snow Leopard, looking back at the days of using a PC with zero regret or fond memories.


my agenda: don't bash Mac computers when you can buy one, take it home and it will serve your musical, communication needs for half a decade or more. no additions, modifications, upgrades or EXTRAS needed.

and its such an easy enjoyable experience you feel the need to stick up for them on internet forums.

Actually, I'm probably going back, SWMBO got a Toshiba with windows 7 and she finds it as intuitive as OS X. If they were the same price i would go for a Mac but I don't find the premium worth it. (though I am still using an iBook G4, good enough for B&B, email and lols)

so you're still using an iBook. you haven't "gone back", your just using your 2 computers for your own needs. and why not

 

[DFrancis]

so you're still using an iBook. you haven't "gone back", your just using your 2 computers for your own needs. and why not

true,you got me there.

 

[mkornecki]

I tire of the voluminous backlash that even a modest proposal that apple products are not all they claim to be generates in virtually every forum.

I used to use a mac, I went back to PC! End of story.

Not worth the price, end of story. They do use intel hardware, end of story.

I love how people all of a sudden feel the need to hold people to absolutes when (inb4 you say I just did as well) qualifying their product line "Aha! I know of this *one* machine that won't run mac OS! So there!"

Yeah you got him, got him good.

On the other hand, apple does have good customer service, end of story.

 

[NightLad]

the kind of "scare tactic yet a polite forum post" that does nothing to hide your agenda. lets not mince words here, you're advising the OP to not buy a Mac desktop or Mac laptop. you can disguise it as nicely as you want but your motive is clear.

My agenda is to promote consumer awareness. I said as much. I don't care what he spends his money on, but he asked for opinions and I'm offering mine.

I am polite because I try to behave like a gentleman.

its the same old argument the PC users whenever they see a Mac thread. bang on about price and closed source content.

I didn't mention the closed source content. But you are correct, both of these issues are of concern to both PC and many Mac users.

ignore purchasing a computer that requires zero maintenance, anti-virus software, malware, trojans.

This past June Apple released yet another massive security plug for 28 “critical” security flaws in their OS.

The idea that Macs are invincible wonder-machines is a false perception that nevertheless continues to be cultivated within Mac culture. I know because I used to believe it too.

and if there is a flaw to be exposed... zero in on it. the brand new iPad has no camera..... I'm not really sure what that has to do with purchasing an iMac, Mac Pro or Macbook, but its enough reason to dissuade the OP

The statement was in context to explaining why it is not possible to own the “latest model”; because the next model already exists, they are just holding it back. The iPad’s empty internal iCam port was just an example. (But you can now buy an external iCam add-on for an additional fee.)

to highlight my point: you can install Mac OS X on any PC and it will run fine. that's simply not true. should Hackintosh be the stock standard for all PC's? if I'm not up to date with installing MAC OS X on a Windows PC and if there is an easier way, forgive me. but I'm sure I would have heard about the ease of doing so on one of the many forums by now.

You can legitimately buy the Mac OS separately. For anybody who knows how to install an OS the process is amazingly simple. If you visit YouTube and search “mac OS on PC” there are about 5,250 results, including detailed tutorials from major computer websites.

as for "the latest model" - there IS such thing, its the latest type of Imac or MacBook with the current operating system. don't make it sound more confusing than it is. the updates Apple send to the OS are free. if you like your 3GS iPhone and are powerless to buying the Iphone 4, who's fault is that? are you trying to defend the powerlessness of the dumb arse consumer here, while at the same time stick up for their rights?

What people do with their own money isn’t my business.

the latest computer is not the be all and end all of computing. in fact buying a reasonably up to date Mac is enough for most consumers. when I decided to buy an Imac (late 2006) I bought a 2.16ghz white version with 2gig RAM and 250g HD. 4 years later, here I am still happy with my Imac with the latest version of Snow Leopard, looking back at the days of using a PC with zero regret or fond memories.

I build computers from scratch. That is how I know that Macs use virtually the exact same components, which spurns my concern over the related price discrepancy between comparable mac and non-mac computers.

my agenda: don't bash Mac computers when you can buy one, take it home and it will serve your musical, communication needs for half a decade or more. no additions, modifications, upgrades or EXTRAS needed.

and its such an easy enjoyable experience you feel the need to stick up for them on internet forums.

I didn’t bash them. I stated personal opinions based on having owned 2, combined with facts about the nature of their hardware. I also offered a suggestion to the OP; that he consider his needs in relation to his purchase. If he needs the full functionality of an iBook, than go for it. However, if all he wants to do is check email and play FarmVille, than a $200-$300 NetBook may be better suited.

For the record, I’d also recommend a fuel-efficient Toyota over a Ferrari to a family man who just needs to run simple errands around town.

 

[Troggie]

I have installed OSX on my Dual Core Intel PC with no issues.. you can find most of the information you need on line if you look up OSX86 as well. You will just need to make sure you have a USB mouse and USB keyboard if you go that route.

I purchased OSX and installed it in a dual boot mode for my job since I didn't want to spend an extra grand for a similar Mac since I had a similar spec PC at home.

I have heard of some quirks with some applications but I have not seen any in the year plus using it with Adobe products and custom applications that my company makes.

Just make sure your PC hardware is supported.. it is more difficult to do with an AMD processor than using a Processor from Intel that you can find in a MAC.

 

[arghblech]

I use many different OSs for work. The workstation is a mac. I hate it. I would rather use a Windows or Linux box.

Here's why:

1) iWorks is a horrible pile of crap. It is compatible with even fewer formats that the corresponding Office or OpenOffice suites.

2) Mail.app's threading model is abysmal and makes large volumes of email completely unmanageable. I deal with tons of email and even Outlook Express handles this with more grace. I like Evolution best of all gui email clients (so far).

3) Poor customizability. I needed to set a few environment variables. Easy as punch, right? Not so. I can't set them in the usual unixy manner because the UI and the commandline do not source all the same config files and often have separate or conflicting configs for the same settings. I had to scrounge around and find /etc/launchd.conf to have both the UI and the commandline accept the same settings. Even a registry setting is preferable to undocumented files with non-standard syntax rules.

4) Uninstalling applications can leave tons of cruft. None of the OSs are immune to this but it seems to be more painful on the mac.

5) Inefficient and inconsistent UI. Far too many mouse clicks required to do extremely simple tasks. Too many interruptive popups that must be moused to and clicked. Sometimes a mouse movement (scroll-wheel for example) can operate on an unfocused window so you think you are manipulating the correct window. Then you start typing and your typing goes into a different window. Note: Many of these are not apparent until one starts using multiple monitors.

6) In a multiple monitor environment, the toolbar is always located on the "main" display even if the application is running on another monitor. This means miles more mousing per day.

7) Lack of Focus-Follows-Mouse. Even windows can do this.

8) Lack of Edge Flipping. Even windows can do this.

Yes. I am picky but I have to use this thing for at least 8 hours a day. It is an inflexible OS that forces me, the power user, to behave like an old lady who only uses email and browser. I used to love macs before OS X. There were real reasons to use them (audio/video, etc). Now that they are running commodity hardware and fake BSD, the only reason I can find is that one might prefer their cases. They do have excellent cases but they do not warrant the price difference, IMHO.

 

[Mazeman]

Before you buy a computer of any brand, I suggest asking yourself what you need it for. If all you do is surf the web, check email, and maybe write a report or two, than an inexpensive ($200-$300) NetBook might be just perfect for you.

No, if that's all you do, then I'd recommend an iPad.

For a little more, you'd get increased safety, reliability, and intuitiveness.

 

[bradyarz]

No, if that's all you do, then I'd recommend an iPad.

For a little more, you'd get increased safety, reliability, and intuitiveness.

ipad is old news. it's only half as good as this one! (pun intended!)

seriously though, dual touch screen displays opens up a whole new world.

i believe there are cheaper options out there.

 

[Uncle Erik]

The difference with the cost of an Apple machine is, almost always, made up in the resale of it. There's a higher initial cost, but Apple hardware doesn't depreciate like PC hardware does. It retains a lot of value. So if you buy an Apple machine and a PC, use them for three years, then resell them, you'll lose about the same amount of money either way.

I also own a Honda and a Toyota for the same reason. You pay a little more up front, get bulletproof usability, and then the resale is good because they're damned reliable products.

Those who obsessivley focus on the initial bottom line are seeing trees but no forest.

Also, I've been using Linux, OS X and Windows every day for the past seven years. Without question, Windows is unreliable junk. It crashes or hangs almost every day at work, that usually destroys a bit of work; hitting control-S is practically a nervous twitch these days.

My household is Microsoft-free. I have a couple of desktops running Linux, a MacBook, iPad and iPhone. The MacBook has been up continuously since May 2007, save for installing a bigger hard drive and OS updates. Can't think of any crashes or other problems. One of the Linux boxes was put together in (IIRC) early 2004 with an Athlon64. It's still running Fedora Core 4 with something like four years of uptime. Yeah, I know it's time to update, but I'll wait for something to die, then I'll update.

I'll take Windows seriously when it can give me uptime the way OS X and Linux do.

 

[arghblech]

There's a higher initial cost, but Apple hardware doesn't depreciate like PC hardware does. It retains a lot of value. So if you buy an Apple machine and a PC, use them for three years, then resell them, you'll lose about the same amount of money either way.

I can't fathom who you would be selling a 3 year old computer to. I wouldn't buy a 3 year old second hand machine unless we are talking big iron. I'm not trying to be snarky here. I donate my old machines to family or charities when I upgrade.

I'll take Windows seriously when it can give me uptime the way OS X and Linux do.

You should take it seriously. Excepting OS patches and hardware failures as you did in your example, I've got an XP box with better uptime than my linux and OS X boxes. It works fine. Don't get me wrong, here. I'm a linux and UNIX admin by trade and I don't *like* Windows as a desktop OS, but I truly loathe OS X as a desktop.

 

[mskembo]

I can't believe it took me over two weeks on this board to find this thread!

I can speak to this one as few others can. Why? Because I am a hard core, dyed in the wool, do this for a living, geek. I have been a PC user most of my life, mainly because that's where I got my start in the tech industry. I bought my first Mac last year for the fetching Mrs. Mskembo, and followed up by getting myself a MacBook Pro this year (the new i7).

The facts:
Without getting into symantec arguments about Hackintosh's et al. You can run any OS you want on any computer. You may have to work through a couple of back doors, but you can. My laptop prior to this was an HP HDX (their higher end gaming laptop). I had a triple boot system on it (Windows 7, Mac OSX 10.6, Fedora). I have the exact same options on my Mac.

Mac's hardware is far and away better than anything else I've seen, it's also a pain in the butt if you want to upgrade, or need to replace a component once it goes out of warrantee. The real mojo isn't that the hardware is made better, but the limited configurations offered means that they only offer hardware configurations that work well together! Additionally OSX doesn't have to be built to work with a million different hardware schemes, therefore reducing the instances of crashing.

My MacBook has crashed on me (I'm currently battling a Wi-Fi issue that's pissing me off), but I LOVE the multi-touch pad. I miss my HP's additional keyboard buttons (Insert, Delete, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down), but I don't miss the size and weight if it.

Tamato Tamato... They are all the same.

Mike

 

[Amer]

The thing that really grinds my gears when it comes to the MacBook Pros is the video card. You're gonna charge me 2200+ for a laptop and only put in a 512MB mid range card in there? That's fine but then don't tell me that it's "next generation" performance and hide it with the "it's faster than ever before" i.e. faster than the garbage one you had in the last MBP. I understand that unless you've got a case as big as a tank you can't really fit a decent one in there but don't try to mislead me. You're showing me performance marks for games that are 7 and 8 years old in the marketing materials!

But then again, half the time I spend on my personal computer is dedicated to games. If you don't play games then I don't think you should ever spend more than a grand on a laptop. I can't help but look at hardware though and when I see Macbooks on Core 2 Duo's I can't help but think "That's what I had on my previous computer, bought it 4 years ago...", no matter how stable it is. Especially when Win7 has not given me a single problem in 8 months of use.

If my $1800 Asus laptop can run brand new games on "Ultra" settings I would want my $2200 MBP to be able to do the same.

 

[mretzloff]

but I LOVE the multi-touch pad.

Greatest thing since sliced bread. I always thought I would need a mouse with my Macbook Pro, but man, was I wrong. The trackpad can do everything.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Argblech, take a look at the used values of Apple hardware on eBay and other places. Most of it sells quite well and they retain value for years. I jailbreak my old iPhones and what they sell for covers the cost of new ones. After the initial purchase of an Apple laptop, I've been able to get new ones for $400-$500, about the same as buying a new PC laptop and reselling it after a few years.

I've never found Windows anything more than a pile of maintenance. Sure, you can coax it into running right, but the amount of time you spend patching and cleaning jus isn't worth it. I've found that Linux and OS X do what I need with a minimum of fuss - I don't need to run Windows for any particular software, so the high maintenance isn't justified.

 

[lindcruiser]

Once you go Mac, you never go back.

Funny, but true……