Lather release

[lctrcbddha]

How do hydration and brush technique affect lather release?

I've only been using a brush and soap for a few weeks. I currently bowl lather SV 80th with a 25mm STF. For the last three or four shaves I've struggled to get the lather to release from the brush. When I paint, the brush seems prone to pick up whatever lather is already on my head rather than leave more.

I don't remember having that problem before these last few shaves. And while I don't know that I'm doing anything differently, I have to assume the cause is technique rather than hardware or software. Can that be caused by lather that is too dry or too wet? Or is it possible that the blame is simply how I'm painting with the brush?

 

[NotBloomingAL]

How do hydration and brush technique affect lather release?

I've only been using a brush and soap for a few weeks. I currently bowl lather SV 80th with a 25mm STF. For the last three or four shaves I've struggled to get the lather to release from the brush. When I paint, the brush seems prone to pick up whatever lather is already on my head rather than leave more.

I don't remember having that problem before these last few shaves. And while I don't know that I'm doing anything differently, I have to assume the cause is technique rather than hardware or software. Can that be caused by lather that is too dry or too wet? Or is it possible that the blame is simply how I'm painting with the brush?

I have no answer to this. It makes me wonder if you aren't adding enough water. Anyway, bumping this thread to keep it alive for further suggestions.

 

[Margus477]

Not that it helps you--I recently started using a bleached boar brush and I'm struggling with the same problem.

 

[NotBloomingAL]

Not that it helps you--I recently started using a bleached boar brush and I'm struggling with the same problem.

I've got a boar that's a latherhog ... but I never had problems with it bowl lathering -- just face lathering.

@lctrcbddha I'd go back to square one. If you're loading the brush off the puck and then taking it to a bowl, I try to overload the brush. Swirl the damp brush on the puck for at least 40 seconds. I've never had problems with an overloaded brush. Add water slowly as you build the lather in the bowl. The lather should go from pasty to smooth. I've never used SV so I don't know what a good lather of it looks like. @JCinPA

Foolproof Lather Discovery Process (TM) for any soap

I am a Lather Master! Not being braggadocious, just stating a fact. And you can be too! I'm here to teach you. No need for a Brotherhood of Lather Masters, every member of B&B should be a Lather Master. Unfortunately, with so many people who enjoy this activity so much, and the more OCD of us...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[showard]

I use the same brush as of 2 months ago. I would bet it's a lack of water. Synthetics don't have reserve water in them as they don't have the ability to do that. I've been bowl lathering with my 25mm STF and adding what I thought was too much water, but....getting the best shaves of my life.

 

[Alex Jr]

It seems to me you’re not using enough product. Have you tried loading more soap?

Different brushes behave differently.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Try loading more soap. You want the brush tips to be fairly saturated after loading the soap. You will need to add more water than usual, also, to balance out your lather. Net result will be plenty of lather. That usually fixes most problems.

 

[JCinPA]

Oh wow! I've not even considered S.V. could be hard to lather, although Marco took a little bit to get used to it.

1. Is that a brush you use successfully with other products?

2. Have you tried a different brush?

I don't shave my head so that could be a whole different experience, and I suspect it is, but S.V. works for me with everything. I'd try a different brush first, then if that works and the boar you are using is a favorite, go back to it to sort it out. I see you are new to brush and soap business. Do you have a good sized synthetic brush?

When I got this, it was $10 cheaper, but still not an expensive brush. Maybe try that with the S.V. If that does not work, I'd be flummoxed.

 

[JCinPA]

I have maybe a dozen brushes, but like soaps, I know them all well. My Foolproof Process was designed for learning finicky soaps, or for newer shavers to ease into it, but I'm unfamiliar with your brush, so I'm kind of at a loss. S.V. should be a stellar performer for you, which I why I'm questioning the brush, is all.

Sorry I don't have more specific tips for you.

 

[tropic]

When that happens to me, it's usually because my lather's a bit dry... either because I made it that way, or because my skin's dry and soaks up the moisture. Perhaps an experiment might give you some insight. Try a lather that's TOO wet by your usual standards and see how that works out.

 

[lctrcbddha]

1. Is that a brush you use successfully with other products?

2. Have you tried a different brush?

I don't shave my head so that could be a whole different experience, and I suspect it is, but S.V. works for me with everything. I'd try a different brush first, then if that works and the boar you are using is a favorite, go back to it to sort it out. I see you are new to brush and soap business. Do you have a good sized synthetic brush?

It's a synthetic brush (25mm Muhle STF knot) that I successfully used with SV with brilliant results just a couple weeks ago. It is strange...

I think I'm going to conduct an experiment. I'm going to try both an intentionally over dry lather, and an intentionally over wet lather, and see if one behaves more similarly to what I'm experiencing.

I do also have another synthetic brush to try as well with a 24mm Apshaveco G5B knot.

 

[Lane101]

How do hydration and brush technique affect lather release?

I've only been using a brush and soap for a few weeks. I currently bowl lather SV 80th with a 25mm STF. For the last three or four shaves I've struggled to get the lather to release from the brush. When I paint, the brush seems prone to pick up whatever lather is already on my head rather than leave more.

I don't remember having that problem before these last few shaves. And while I don't know that I'm doing anything differently, I have to assume the cause is technique rather than hardware or software. Can that be caused by lather that is too dry or too wet? Or is it possible that the blame is simply how I'm painting with the brush?

You have a good quality brush so my best guess is that your lather may be too dry. Suggest trying a slicker and wetter lather that will release more easily. Keep adding small amounts of water to your brush, if you face lather, or bowl to reduce the density and increase slickness. Should help release the lather more easily.

Also try turning the brush as you apply the lather as often lather will build up on the backside of the brush when I face lather.

Good luck and let us know if this helps.

 

[GTTony]

I have the several synthetic brushes including a Muhle synthetic STF and they all lather great with SV including the 80th. I find that if the brush picks up lather or smears instead of releasing lather than it is either too dry, or if you are using a slick pre shave, it just smears instead of lathering. With SV follow Marco's suggestion, drizzle really hot water on top of the puck let set for a few minutes while prepping then load up the brush on the puck. I even load the brush, scrape some lather off the brush onto the edge of the bowl and load the brush again until I have a good amount. With head and face shaving you'll need plenty of lather anyway. Add water a little at a time until you have a good lather, not too dry. Wet should release better than dry if you loaded the brush well. Here is an Edwin Jasgger synthetic brush and a good lather. Maybe just a tad on the wet side. And a Muhle lathered.

 

[CdnShaveGuy]

Oh wow! I've not even considered S.V. could be hard to lather, although Marco took a little bit to get used to it.

1. Is that a brush you use successfully with other products?

2. Have you tried a different brush?

I don't shave my head so that could be a whole different experience, and I suspect it is, but S.V. works for me with everything. I'd try a different brush first, then if that works and the boar you are using is a favorite, go back to it to sort it out. I see you are new to brush and soap business. Do you have a good sized synthetic brush?

When I got this, it was $10 cheaper, but still not an expensive brush. Maybe try that with the S.V. If that does not work, I'd be flummoxed.

I have SV Manna di Sicilia soap and I find that very little soap is needed to make enough lather for 3 generous applications.

I do find however, that it takes more time then usual to build up the lather as compared to other soaps I use by startingbeith a wet, not dripping brush and then slowly adding a few drops of water, working it in until you get a rich yogurt like lather.

I should note that I don't load from the soap bowel but rather, by using a demitasse spoon to scape a ~1 gram off and paste it into a warmed up shaving bowel. I like this approach as, I can rotate between soaps without concern of contamination and mold if water creeps around the puck but more importantly, I know how much raw soap I need to use (for each soap) for a shave, there's less waste and better/accurate result each time.

No issues either with my synthetic Simpson Trafagar T2 or a REALLY cheap Yaqi synthetic that's actually pretty darn good.

 

[Bob65]

I don't understand one thing: do you take directly from the jar or do you whip it in a bowl?
I use and have used several Saponificio Varesino soaps and I have never and in my opinion they whip really well.
In my opinion you take too little soap.
I like to be generous with the soap for several reasons: I like very full-bodied foams and, since I do three passes plus the courtesy one, I expect the amount of foam to always be abundant, especially for the last pass against the grain which is the most demanding.
This is how I do it.
About ten minutes before starting the "ritual" I soak the brush in hot water.
Before starting to take directly from the bowl, I squeeze it well, take it and only if I think it is not moist enough I add water drops little by little.
The length of the facial massage is very important: never less than 3/4 minutes: this is the only way I can get a satisfactory foam.

 

[lasta]

Use more soap.

Solution to 99% of lather problems.

 

[lctrcbddha]

I don't understand one thing: do you take directly from the jar or do you whip it in a bowl?

I load the brush from the jar, then build the lather in a bowl.

First I drip some water directly onto the soap in the jar and let it sit while I wash my face, beard, and head, then pour the bloom water into my bowl. I dip about 1/3rd of the brush in clean water, then swirl the brush on the soap for about 20 seconds(?).

Then I swirl the brush in the bowl with the bloom water until its incorporated. From there I've been using the Foolproof Process of adding just a bit of water, swirling until incorporated, and repeating. I haven't been strictly measuring (like with a spoon) how much water each time - just dipping the tip of the brush in water.

I think I must recently have begun not loading the brush as long, not adding water enough times, or adding water too many times.

When I first started using SV the result was absolutely perfect with the same brush and bowl, so I must be doing something different - I just need to figure out what.

 

[Bob65]

Honestly, it seems like a rather cumbersome process to me.
But if you like to do it this way, I certainly won't be the one to tell you otherwise!
However, I find that the method that many of us do, that is:
- soak the brush for about ten minutes in hot water - not boiling;
- Gently squeeze the brush and start taking it from the jar
- Add water as needed
- Start whipping
It is much more practical, easier and certainly, as far as I'm concerned, I have rarely made a mistake with the foam this way.

 

[lctrcbddha]

I performed my experiment this morning. The culprit was almost certainly not enough water.

(1) I bloomed the soap, poured the bloom water into the bowl, and loaded the brush as normal. This time I counted swirls.​

​

(2) I added water incrementally two or three times, incorporating each addition, and stopped a couple steps short of where (I think) I've been stopping. The lather seemed okay-ish, with a nice sheen and no large bubbles.​

​

The result was the same problem. The lather didn't want to come off of the brush, and painting just pushed it around or even picked it back up.​

(3) I added more water, and more, and more. I got to, "this is way too much water" and kept going. I think I added about water about 12 more times, so say 14 to 16 total additions of water.​

The result was a lather that released easily and was easy to paint with. It was definitely too wet, wanting to drip off my face and head rather than stay put. I didn't actually shave with it, but even though it wasn't ideal I still felt like I could have.​

So I have to conclude that sometime between a couple weeks ago and a few days ago I began adding not enough water.

From here I'll try to figure out exactly how much more water I need to be adding. I may also need to experiment with loading less soap - with all that water the resulting lather was probably enough for a 6+ pass head shave...

Thank you everyone! Your advice and encouragement is greatly appreciated!

 

[CdnShaveGuy]

I performed my experiment this morning. The culprit was almost certainly not enough water.

(1) I bloomed the soap, poured the bloom water into the bowl, and loaded the brush as normal. This time I counted swirls.​

​

(2) I added water incrementally two or three times, incorporating each addition, and stopped a couple steps short of where (I think) I've been stopping. The lather seemed okay-ish, with a nice sheen and no large bubbles.​

​

The result was the same problem. The lather didn't want to come off of the brush, and painting just pushed it around or even picked it back up.​

(3) I added more water, and more, and more. I got to, "this is way too much water" and kept going. I think I added about water about 12 more times, so say 14 to 16 total additions of water.​

The result was a lather that released easily and was easy to paint with. It was definitely too wet, wanting to drip off my face and head rather than stay put. I didn't actually shave with it, but even though it wasn't ideal I still felt like I could have.​

So I have to conclude that sometime between a couple weeks ago and a few days ago I began adding not enough water.

From here I'll try to figure out exactly how much more water I need to be adding. I may also need to experiment with loading less soap - with all that water the resulting lather was probably enough for a 6+ pass head shave...

Thank you everyone! Your advice and encouragement is greatly appreciated!

BINGO! I found personally that you need very little of the SV product to make a lot of lather as compared to other products I've tried. That's why I prefer measuring out soap with a demitasse spoon rather than loading the brush off the puck. each soap is different based on my experiences.