Jay21's Journey Journal

[Jay21]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking here for quite a while and I finally decided to register. I'm sort of new to wet shaving, but I have more experience than a true nOOb that started a week ago, LOL. About 7 years ago, I bought a Parker 96 and used it for a few months, but it started to corrode, and it never gave me great shaves (it was pretty irritation free but wasn't any closer than cartridges), so I tossed it and went back to cartridges. Cartridges never give me a close shave (but they are irritation free) and I recently got curious about DE shaving again.

Then, a few months ago, I bought a Weishi-Van-der-Hagen on a whim to try wet DE shaving again. After butchering my face with the included terrible blades, I tried some of the Personna blues I had saved from my Parker 96 days. The shave was much better, but it wasn't any closer than cartridges. So, I decided to upgrade to the EJ 89 and Astra SP, which has been giving me decent results.

However, I can't get very close shaves with the EJ 89, although they are better than what I get from cartridges. I've tried Personna blues and Astra SS. I can get a DFS with three passes, but then I get irritation and burn. The Astras seem to shave more closely than the Personnas, so I've been sticking with them exclusively for a while. I get more irritation than I ever did with cartridges. If I stop after one or two passes, I get much less irritation. It seems like the third pass is the potential major issue for me, which means I'm fighting the ultimate tradeoff of closeness vs. irritation. After researching here, I really tried improving my prep and technique. I use Proraso cream (sensitive) and finish with an alum bar. Then I use Nivea post shave balm. That has helped, but I still can't get DFS+ or BBS without having razor burn. I've tried different angles and really trying my best to apply no pressure. I can shave WTG and XTG, but ATG is absolutely out of the question for me. If I do a 3-pass shave, it's WTG, XTG, and opposite XTG.

Next, I decided that maybe I needed a more aggressive razor than the EJ 89. Like a fool, I went for the Muhle r41 with Astra SP. That gave me the closest and best shave of my life (BBS like glass after 2 passes), but also lots of irritation. After a few attempts with that, I put it in the drawer until I get better with my technique and confidence.

After that, I thought I should pursue an adjustable, so I settled on the Rockwell 6c. I've tried the R4, R5, and R6 plates (based on the Italian Barber scale, plate 4 is the next step up in aggression from the EJ 89) with Astra SP. They do provide increasing levels of closeness, but that razor absolutely gives me lots of irritation, much worse than I get with the EJ 89. I've really paid attention to my angles and pressure, but no matter how careful I am, I still get irritation. I can use all 3 of those plates and never get any nicks or weepers, but the razor burn is a major problem. It seems like for whatever reason, my face simply cannot tolerate the 6c with Astra SP blades, so I'll have to use the EJ 89 exclusively for a while.

I'm at a bit of a loss. I know I probably need to keep practicing my technique, but that can't be the only reason for my irritation considering I'm not getting any nicks or weepers, right? This would suggest my technique is ok, right? The irritation might be from too many passes or the wrong blade for my face?

I'm going to try adding pre-shave (Proraso) to my routine, but that won't arrive in the mail until next week. I will also try using the Derby extra blades that came with my EJ 89 to see if the Astra SP are just too sharp and irritating on my face.

What suggestions do you have for me? Do you think I need sharper or duller blades? A more aggressive razor? An even less aggressive razor than the EJ 89? We all think our skin is more sensitive than it is and our beard hair is thicker than it is. I'm not sure where I truly fall, but maybe I've an average Joe on all accounts. I'm going to let my face settle down for an extra day in between shaves before I try to EJ 89 with Derby extras.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

 

[Hannah's Dad]

Jay, try a Feather blade with your R41. One pass, with very, very light pressure and ride it steep (handle almost parallel to your face).

 

[Jay21]

Jay, try a Feather blade with your R41. One pass, with very, very light pressure and ride it steep (handle almost parallel to your face).

Thank you for the quick reply. I'll buy some Feathers the next time I place an order.

 

[Hannah's Dad]

Thank you for the quick reply. I'll buy some Feathers the next time I place an order.

It might seem counterintuitive to suggest maximum aggression; but the less amount of time the blade spends on your face, the better.

 

[Lightcs1776]

Welcome. Glad you decided to stop lurking and join.

 

[NickCutlip]

Welcome to the forum, Jay !!

 

[HazMat Shaver]

I recommend better soap. Look into zingari man or declaration grooming. These will give you more protection and slickness. Also i like gillette Nacet blades better than most others. But no mater what you decide to change do one change/ thing and do it for a few shaves before moving on. Changing too many things at once will cause issue and you wont know what it was that caused the problem.

 

[know1special]

For me (and perhaps for most) the situation is generally:

Fewer passes = less irritation
More passes = more irritation

Doing fewer passes and still getting a close result obviously requires more aggresive gear. Which, of course, requires a certain amount of acclimation and practice.

For myself, once I commited to (and mastered) a more aggro setup my issues with irritation went away. Well, that and switching to cold water shaves.

To be clear, irritation has more potential causes than just blade time. But, learning to get the result you want with the least amount of strokes may go a long way towards alleviating your issue.

Good luck!

 

[VerbaVolant]

Number of passes is somehow relevant but number of strokes is what gives you trouble. Make that lather proper and you can double the number of strokes. If you are coming from cartridges you are, most likely, used to multiple consecutive strokes over the same area. Sometimes six or more. If residual slickness is missing, trouble starts after the second stroke when the blade rides on unlubricated skin.
My uneducated opinion.

I must admit, I didn't read the whole message. Only the bits about irritation and blades.

Good luck.

 

[rudygu]

…I'm at a bit of a loss. I know I probably need to keep practicing my technique, but that can't be the only reason for my irritation considering I'm not getting any nicks or weepers, right? This would suggest my technique is ok, right? The irritation might be from too many passes or the wrong blade for my face?

Don’t discount the effect of pressure. I too struggle with irritation and never draw any blood. You’re on the right track by minimizing the number of passes, but trying to get a very close shave with the EJ89 with minimal strokes is going to force you to press down like you would a cartridge. Make sure your lather is slick and protective, use a more efficient razor and the lightest pressure possible.

 

[JCarr]

If switching from Astra SP to Derby Extra helps...you should play the lottery. However, I think the chances of that blade switch helping are about as likely as winning the lottery...very slim. Not no chance at all...but, infinitesimally small.

Good choice on the R41. From your post, I think you learned something there...first, BBS is possible and, second, the razor you use does matter. However, my suggestion to you would be not to chase BBS. At least, not until you've mastered a few things...proper lather with consistent application (the lather is the protection...to make passes and strokes without it invites irritation and other nastiness), consistent shave pattern (constantly altering your shave routine invites unpredictable results) and finally, daily shaving is, depending on the person, not always necessary. I shave every other or every three days. I get a BBS every time...but, if I shaved daily with my R41, it wouldn't matter if I used a Feather or a Derby Extra, I would get a BBS...along with multiple weepers and plenty of sensitive, red irritation. One last thing, as others have said it here already...cold water shaving may help...it was one thing that helped me drive away irritation.

Always keep in mind, the right combination is out there, you just have to continue to pursue it.

Happy Shaves!

 

[Invicta]

Welcome to B&B.
I suggest you try a few more blades; Gillette Silver Blue or Platinum are good performers.

 

[Eric_75]

Hello and welcome to B & B!

 

[BigJ]

Great advice above!

And welcome aboard!

 

[Hms123]

Welcome. Have fun….oh, and no pressure is the key.

 

[Mike M]

Right, you have good razors, good blades and a good soap, so all you need for a good shave. The fact that it is not coming together like that tends to suggest something in your technique. Do not chase a BBS to start with, though for the sake of comfort I have never chased the baby.
A couple of things come to mind, firstly lather, are you bowl lathering or face lathering? Try bowl lathering first, pick up a bowl from the kitchen and lather in that. If your lather is too dry that may be a cause for irritation experiment with more water. If it is too wet it will not protect so try less water. @HazMat Shaver may have a point about the soap, for those seeking a BBS slicker soap always helps. Though I prefer expensive soaps you do not need to go that far, try Tabac, they even do a stick which can be had cheaply. That could also help you use less pressure when shaving as it is the pressure that is causing the irritation.
Choose one razor and stick to it. Whilst we all love a collection when you are learning technique you need to pick one razor and stick to it. Different razors can require very different motor skills to control them. Might I suggest you start with the R89, the head on the 6C is heavy and bulky and the R41 is not a daily driver, at least for me and in my den my R89 sees more use than the 6C and R41 put together.
Map your beard growth, your whiskers will grow at different angles in different places. Three passes are all about reducing stubble pass by pass. I first do a standard WTG (north-south) pass with the angle adjusted on the neck (my problem area) to make the pass more efficient. Then I do a XTG (side to side) pass again adjusted on my neck. Finally a ATG (south-north) pass you can leave this step out to start with and see how you get on with just 2 passes it will lead to less irritation.
Overall don't forget it's about having fun, if I never get a BBS I don't care, I have 20 mins a day that is mine to enjoy free of distraction. I find shaving is good therapy.
Never forget all the soaps, razors, blades and brushes in the world won't give you a good shave if you don't know how to use them properly.
Sorry for rambling!

 

[Jay21]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, giving great advice, and making me feel welcome.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I have switched to cold water shaving to try to tame the irritation. Maybe it helped? I can't really tell, but it's certainly not a night and day difference. I started with bowl lathering soap, but I felt that the soap may not have been good quality, so I switched to Proraso cream and have been face lathering according to their instructions and the video they provided. This may have helped a little but, once again, not a night and day difference. I ordered a better brush yesterday in the hopes that maybe even softer bristles could help with irritation and also making a better lather. I also mapped my beard, which did help some. I have swirls on my neck, and the hair grows in several directions, so it takes quite a bit of maneuvering, but I think I have all the grain directions figured out.

It seems like I do need more efficient gear, as some have suggested. I've come to realize that the 6c maybe just isn't for me. There's something about the design that causes me the most irritation of all the CC razors I've tried. Maybe it's the weight. Maybe it's the head geometry. Maybe it's the lack of scallops on the safety bar. I also don't find it very efficient as even the R6 plate doesn't mow down stubble as well as I think it should. After 3 passes, it's not BBS. There is no improvement from the second pass to the third, so all that's occurring is irritation at that point. I need to put the 6c aside for a while until I can figure some things out.

I'll be placing an order for some sharper blades, such as Feathers and maybe some of the Gillettes that were suggested. I'm also open to suggestions for more efficient razors (see below). While the r41 is in my den, I'm a little scared of it being my daily driver, especially with Feathers in it. I trust my technique, but maybe not that much at this point, LOL. I also don't know how well my face will hold up after using it every day.

I'm giving my face another day to recover from the last shave, so I won't be shaving again until tomorrow. I don't have any local stores that sell blades that aren't labeled Van der Hagen, so it will be a bit before any new blades arrive in the mail. In the meantime, I have some time to experiment. I'll really try harder to get better lather and to apply even less pressure. I don't think I'm applying any, especially on my neck and below my chin where the irritation is the worst, which would mean going against gravity to force the razor up, but you never know. I'm also going to try the Derby blades in the EJ 89 just so I can rule out blade sharpness as the irritant. I have to shave this week anyway. It can't hurt, even though I expect the blades to not be good. But, you never know.

Since it seems I need more efficient gear to minimize the number of passes, and also a razor not as aggressive as the r41 for my daily driver, how do people feel about the Lupo 95? or 72? As I mentioned, the large gaps on the 6c plates R4-R6 could be considered aggressive, but they aren't efficient for me. Would the Lupo be more efficient than the 6c but a more appropriate daily driver than the r41?

Thanks again to everyone,
Jay

 

[dmshaver]

Glad you’ve joined, welcome!

 

[Mike M]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, giving great advice, and making me feel welcome.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I have switched to cold water shaving to try to tame the irritation. Maybe it helped? I can't really tell, but it's certainly not a night and day difference. I started with bowl lathering soap, but I felt that the soap may not have been good quality, so I switched to Proraso cream and have been face lathering according to their instructions and the video they provided. This may have helped a little but, once again, not a night and day difference. I ordered a better brush yesterday in the hopes that maybe even softer bristles could help with irritation and also making a better lather. I also mapped my beard, which did help some. I have swirls on my neck, and the hair grows in several directions, so it takes quite a bit of maneuvering, but I think I have all the grain directions figured out.

It seems like I do need more efficient gear, as some have suggested. I've come to realize that the 6c maybe just isn't for me. There's something about the design that causes me the most irritation of all the CC razors I've tried. Maybe it's the weight. Maybe it's the head geometry. Maybe it's the lack of scallops on the safety bar. I also don't find it very efficient as even the R6 plate doesn't mow down stubble as well as I think it should. After 3 passes, it's not BBS. There is no improvement from the second pass to the third, so all that's occurring is irritation at that point. I need to put the 6c aside for a while until I can figure some things out.

I'll be placing an order for some sharper blades, such as Feathers and maybe some of the Gillettes that were suggested. I'm also open to suggestions for more efficient razors (see below). While the r41 is in my den, I'm a little scared of it being my daily driver, especially with Feathers in it. I trust my technique, but maybe not that much at this point, LOL. I also don't know how well my face will hold up after using it every day.

I'm giving my face another day to recover from the last shave, so I won't be shaving again until tomorrow. I don't have any local stores that sell blades that aren't labeled Van der Hagen, so it will be a bit before any new blades arrive in the mail. In the meantime, I have some time to experiment. I'll really try harder to get better lather and to apply even less pressure. I don't think I'm applying any, especially on my neck and below my chin where the irritation is the worst, which would mean going against gravity to force the razor up, but you never know. I'm also going to try the Derby blades in the EJ 89 just so I can rule out blade sharpness as the irritant. I have to shave this week anyway. It can't hurt, even though I expect the blades to not be good. But, you never know.

Since it seems I need more efficient gear to minimize the number of passes, and also a razor not as aggressive as the r41 for my daily driver, how do people feel about the Lupo 95? or 72? As I mentioned, the large gaps on the 6c plates R4-R6 could be considered aggressive, but they aren't efficient for me. Would the Lupo be more efficient than the 6c but a more appropriate daily driver than the r41?

Thanks again to everyone,
Jay

The Lupo 95 is a big step up in aggression, mine has an HD handle, but try to get one with a lighter handle, I find it is so heavy it affects the handling of the razor. I have just tried mine out for nearly 2 weeks straight and whilst it could be a daily driver, my Muhle Rocca is definitely still my favourite.
I think the main thing for you is to tackle the irritation before deciding on a new razor. If you have to buy something try a new soap, and if you like spending money there are plenty of expensive soaps out there. Some of my favourites are Zingari Man, Martin de Candre and Saponificio Varesino

 

[NorthernSoul]

My advice would be to adjust your goals. Make it your goal to learn how to get an irritation-free shave at first.

Sure, you'd like a really close shave. In previous generations, most guys did not go for a three pass shave. It would be more common to do a couple of passes at most while getting as close as possible. The goal was mainly to be neat and presentable. It's hard to be neat and presentable with an inflamed face or a bunch of nicks and cuts.

As you practice, you will find yourself getting closer shaves naturally over time. After awhile, you can allow yourself a "touch up" which is an extra half pass to pick up all the little spots you missed. But don't worry about that right now. Just get as close as you can without overdoing it to the point of irritation.