Sadly churches and schools are targeted because they are perceived as defenseless. Mass shootings are rarely, if ever, about robbing. Most of the perps are just trying to get their names in the media to become infamous. Workplace shootings are usually disgruntled ex-employees seeking revenge for losing their jobs or being mis-treated. In nearly all cases, they happen in places where guns are prohibited.
Is anyone on their church's security team?
- Thread starter nortac
- Start date
Sadly churches and schools are targeted because they are perceived as defenseless. Mass shootings are rarely, if ever, about robbing. Most of the perps are just trying to get their names in the media to become infamous. Workplace shootings are usually disgruntled ex-employees seeking revenge for losing their jobs or being mis-treated. In nearly all cases, they happen in places where guns are prohibited.
- Thread starter
- #102
I had lunch with the head of the churches safety and security team today. While I still need the "official" interview with three team leaders, things seem very positive. Two of the team leaders with whom I need to interview with are out of the country on a mission trip to Ethiopia, but will be back soon. I get the impression that they are probably more interested in my "walk with the Lord", than any skill or experience I may have with firearms. As it should be.
As it should be, yes. Put on the full armor of God.
Ain't nothing wrong with adding a Glock to the mix, though.
Small conservative church in Utah. No security plan. Pastor doesn’t want to know, Council/elders don’t think one is necessary. Me I am retired LE and get different viewpoint . So, I carry concealed. I know some others think likewise, but I know them and trust them, to a certain extent. As with most churches, most parishioners are older women, and if they thought anyone was armed, they would be terrified. Not at the thought of something bad happening on a Sunday, but at me packing.
People like the pastor who is uneducated need to be educated. Church of all detonations are soft target if the have no security plans.
best book to get people to open eye was written vey Ex SEAL, Air Marshal, FBI Agent,
Sheep No More: The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
Yes. I am head of the usher and security team at my church.
My church's team is very visible and serious. They act like police on security detail, and several of them are cops. Pastor used to be an MP, so it is pretty hard-core. That's not my vibe. If it were more of a gun club leadership vibe, I might get involved.
Chandu
I Waxed The Badger.
Imma nail any sob what tries to upend services to a cross.
On a serious note, no I'm not, but I am a member of big church that has peeps assigned to parking and so on. Probably have security for all I know.
I like my church, it's big, but small at the same time, meaning they have a lot of members but unlike some large churches they remember why they are growing the membership.
I visited a church out west and felt very comfortable there...
Had never been there and it was located outside of a large metro area with easy on/off interstate ramps. I exited off, looped around and angled toward the church. As I approached it became apparent that there was only one way to get to the church parking lot. All cars had to funnel past a big whopping white pickup truck with a large sign on the door: "SECURITY". Inside the truck was a no-nonsense guy in a cowboy hat. Hmmm, "We're not in Kansas anymore Toto..."
I go inside and was met with a terrific congregation of very friendly folks. The church looked to have about 500 or so regular attenders. I settle in and the service begins. After a moment I noticed something. There was a guy sitting on a bar stool height chair toward the front of the sanctuary. He was facing toward the seated congregants and for the entire hour he just sat looking across the tops of our heads. I grinned at it all and loved the initiative that this church took to ensure God's flock was protected. I thought it a great example of high profile security absolutely being a deterrent.
It is an old one but is worth recalling. Two guys hiking in the woods are confronted by a bear. They turn and run and as they do so one says to another, "This is pointless, the bear is faster than us." His buddy says, "Oh I don't have to outrun the bear I just need to outrun you." Likewise, a church just needs a level of deterrence that is more than the other soft target down the street.
We worship at a church of 2,000 people and about two years ago they tightened matters up. The most visible part was they hired a police officer who is there every Sunday. The police car is parked at the front entrance - you can't miss it. The officer is usually in the large front lobby visiting with folks and also wanders the building. Not a peep from the congregation, they recognize that as our fallen world changes there are new aspects that need to be addressed.
Had never been there and it was located outside of a large metro area with easy on/off interstate ramps. I exited off, looped around and angled toward the church. As I approached it became apparent that there was only one way to get to the church parking lot. All cars had to funnel past a big whopping white pickup truck with a large sign on the door: "SECURITY". Inside the truck was a no-nonsense guy in a cowboy hat. Hmmm, "We're not in Kansas anymore Toto..."
I go inside and was met with a terrific congregation of very friendly folks. The church looked to have about 500 or so regular attenders. I settle in and the service begins. After a moment I noticed something. There was a guy sitting on a bar stool height chair toward the front of the sanctuary. He was facing toward the seated congregants and for the entire hour he just sat looking across the tops of our heads. I grinned at it all and loved the initiative that this church took to ensure God's flock was protected. I thought it a great example of high profile security absolutely being a deterrent.
It is an old one but is worth recalling. Two guys hiking in the woods are confronted by a bear. They turn and run and as they do so one says to another, "This is pointless, the bear is faster than us." His buddy says, "Oh I don't have to outrun the bear I just need to outrun you." Likewise, a church just needs a level of deterrence that is more than the other soft target down the street.
We worship at a church of 2,000 people and about two years ago they tightened matters up. The most visible part was they hired a police officer who is there every Sunday. The police car is parked at the front entrance - you can't miss it. The officer is usually in the large front lobby visiting with folks and also wanders the building. Not a peep from the congregation, they recognize that as our fallen world changes there are new aspects that need to be addressed.
I used the "sad" emoji because the times sure have changed since I was a youngster.... As ol' Ben said.. an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....
- Thread starter
- #111
Well I finally had my interview with some of the team leaders of my church's Safety and Security team, and as expected, it was more about my walk with Christ than anything else. I think it went very well. I did not get much information on the tactical aspects or gun related training and I didn't want to come across as being too eager in that respect. I'm there to serve in what ever capacity that the church sees fit. I get the impression that their training is in a transitional phase. I will bide my time and see whats what. I'll continue to train on my own. Once I get established on the team, perhaps I can apply some subtle influence on the direction of training, if it is found wanting.
I was at local community vendors fair like were local business we set up trolling for customers, Mortician, Investments, Plummers, AC People, and the Local Jewish House of worship had table. Was talking with a Member about Security, and Safety on their Soft Target. I asked if any Members Carry? He said NO, we are a bunch of old people, meaning 55+. They hire armed RENA-A-COPS, that are not LEs'. I said you people need to learn to Carry, Shoot Straight, and get word out 50% of Congregation is armed. Said signs on outside of their Synagog, say WARNING our Congregation is Armed Security Force would be big deterrent.
Last week just before the service we were talking the the pastor, a lady, about all the social problems, shootings, ect. I think it started when I asked about a new building going up in a small community just north of us and was told it was a new school and someone said they needed a moat around it. Anyway I commented that I was carrying and the pastor said please continue to do so, that she thought several other members also carried in church. No defined, specially trained security, for the most part most of us are older and simply cannot run, so would be better to stand and fight.
The only church I regularly attend is my father's in NC. I go with him whenever I visit.
While there is no official Security Team, I am one of four armed parishioners on any given Sunday. The Minister is also armed.
While there is no official Security Team, I am one of four armed parishioners on any given Sunday. The Minister is also armed.
- Thread starter
- #115
Well I had my first orientation shift on my church's Safety and Security team. The training program is indeed in a transition period with promises of great things to come, but scant details or a clear picture of what to expect time wise. I'm not sure if the ambiguity is intentional while they see how I do in a probationary role (also undefined) or if the changes in training are truly undecided. That being said, I otherwise think that the team is very professional and several team members have an LE background. So my role so far, is as an unarmed team member, which is fine for now. Admittedly, I have a lot to learn yet about the physical layout of our large church and campus. They do have an impressive video surveillance system. The team leader did mention upcoming online training. God is teaching me patience as I also wait for my Glock 19 slide to be milled for an optic mount and refinished. So it will all come together according to God's timeline.
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awesome to hear you are on the team now
I thought about it, but...and yes I know, but it just feels strange to me, carrying into the sanctuary. I dunno, it just feels like a disrespect to God somehow. Our church does have a small security team, and I've carried in other parts of the building myself. But attending service armed just...I don't know. I can't get the image out of my head from the old westerns, of every man hanging his gunbelt in the vestibule before walking into church.
I may just be odd. I'm having a hard time sorting out how I feel about it.
I may just be odd. I'm having a hard time sorting out how I feel about it.
- Thread starter
- #118
@RangerReady23 , my thought process is that the sheepdog has to protect the sheep where they are most vulnerable. Most church shootings occur in the sanctuary because that's where the most soft targets are. In our security ministry, we are not there to worship, per se, but to protect the worshipers. Most of our security team attends other service times when they are not working security for their worship activity. But I would still carry then as well.
spot on Nortac
IMHO we are the insurance policy that we never want to use think of a storm or to say we are to keep the outside bad from coming into/onto the church to do harm
if one was to ask the police are there any incidents within 5 miles of my home many might be shocked at how many and to what level things happen even though most never notice and are unaware as they are handled and if they were not there to stop those from happening one might find out and sadly be a victim of them
when you realize many churches do have outside threats that are very credible way to often sadly
Nehemiah 4:9:
And we prayed to our God and set a guard as a protection against them day and night.
this is a great verse as it was to a direct threat
Acts 20:28-30
28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
(this also means from false prophets and any outside sources coming in and why I also say its OK to call out those churches that are straying from biblical teachings)
Luke 22:36:
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
note: for protection not aggression
Chronicles 9:21-24:
21 Zechariah the son of Meshelemiah was gatekeeper at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 22 All these, who were chosen as gatekeepers at the thresholds, were 212. They were enrolled by genealogies in their villages. David and Samuel the seer established them in their office of trust. 23 So they and their sons were in charge of the gates of the house of the Lord, that is, the house of the tent, as guards. 24 The gatekeepers were on the four sides, east, west, north, and south.
IMHO we are the insurance policy that we never want to use think of a storm or to say we are to keep the outside bad from coming into/onto the church to do harm
if one was to ask the police are there any incidents within 5 miles of my home many might be shocked at how many and to what level things happen even though most never notice and are unaware as they are handled and if they were not there to stop those from happening one might find out and sadly be a victim of them
when you realize many churches do have outside threats that are very credible way to often sadly
Nehemiah 4:9:
And we prayed to our God and set a guard as a protection against them day and night.
this is a great verse as it was to a direct threat
Acts 20:28-30
28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
(this also means from false prophets and any outside sources coming in and why I also say its OK to call out those churches that are straying from biblical teachings)
Luke 22:36:
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
note: for protection not aggression
Chronicles 9:21-24:
21 Zechariah the son of Meshelemiah was gatekeeper at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 22 All these, who were chosen as gatekeepers at the thresholds, were 212. They were enrolled by genealogies in their villages. David and Samuel the seer established them in their office of trust. 23 So they and their sons were in charge of the gates of the house of the Lord, that is, the house of the tent, as guards. 24 The gatekeepers were on the four sides, east, west, north, and south.
- Thread starter
- #120
Amen.
