So I take it you smoke a lot of White Owls and Dutch Masters?
I rephrase that. I think a majority of cigar smokers would consider R&J a premium brand.
Had my first cigar today.
- Thread starter mretzloff
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So I take it you smoke a lot of White Owls and Dutch Masters?
I rephrase that. I think a majority of cigar smokers would consider R&J a premium brand.
So I take it you smoke a lot of White Owls and Dutch Masters?
I rephrase that. I think a majority of cigar smokers would consider R&J a premium brand.
My yard 'gar is a Opus X. Have I smoked Dutch Masters and White Owls? Yeah I tried them while in the Army. Just look at my introduction profile and start seeing the crazy cigars I smoke.
@Leche
Obviously you haven't taken the time to check my avatar picture.
Of course I wet shave. I just got back into it.
The DR is authentic. Its not a knock off as they adapted to the situation and did what they had to do. That being said the Cuban government just acquired what they wanted and sold it as there own. To me there is no bigger knock off.
I would say RYJ is a premium brand but not a top shelf stick.
@Leche
Obviously you haven't taken the time to check my avatar picture.
Yes I have seen your avatar (love the stash), I was just trying to add some humor. Another shot at it
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPrNuF72L3Y[/YOUTUBE]
I agree with that. I think a lot of people in the cigar world disagree on the term "premium" because to some it means price tag alone, which is definitely not the case. If Optimo or Swisher put out a thirty dollar stick, it still wouldn't be a premium cigar in my eyes. Fuente or Davidoff however could put out a four dollar stick and it would still be considered "premium" to me so long as it lives up to the standards of the name and brand.
What I consider "top shelf" is anything priced out of my range.
- Thread starter
- #46
What are some top shelf brands?
Matthew, here are a few that I like: Padron, La Flor Dominicana, CAO, some Rocky Patels, Arturo Fuetne, Ashton, and Perdomo, among others.
Try to smoke as many different brands as you can as well as differnt wrappers and sizes. Soon you will know what you like as far as flavor profile and size. Not all top-shelf cigars are good. The only way to find out is to try a variety. Because someone swears a $15 Ashton is the best cigar there is, it may not be to your liking.
Above all, have fun trying different cigars. It is all about the ambience and relaxation of the smoke. You can do that with a $3 cigar just as well as you can a $20 one.
DL
- Thread starter
- #48
Dustin, thanks.
And thank you to everyone else too.
And thank you to everyone else too.
Padron like the Anniversary 1964 and 1926 line they have.
Fuente like Opus X, Forbidden X, Anejo, and Hemingway Maduro's.
Davidoff has a few as well like the Millennium, and Anniversario lines.
Zino Platinum Crown series which carries a hefty price tag.
LFD by Lito Gomez. A lot of his cigars are just that good.
Illusione or however its spelled.
Casa Fuente any of them fit the bill. You can only buy these in Las Vegas.
There is others but when you add R&J, Macanudo, and others like Acids which is considered a Premium cigar by many. But I personally do not agree with others on the topic as I have a "higher standard" of what I think is Premium and top shelf.
I can't really think of a top shelf "brand" off the top of my head- just certain lines from premium makers that could be considered top shelf. For example, Gurkha is a premium brand, but they manufacture "Her Majesties Reserve" which can set you back seven or eight hundred dollars a stick. Cohiba is a premium brand, but they put out a line of Altadis that runs about twenty grand a box. Davidoff makes all kinds of lines that vary from cheap to ultra expensive- but they're still just a premium brand.
What are you trying to do, find the most expensive smoke you can?
I tell you honestly, if you run down to your local tobacconist right now and plunk down twenty bucks for a Davidoff Double R- the taste and nuance will be lost on you this early in the game. Smoke a variety of premium 4-8 dollar smokes and develop a palate, then sample a couple of gas station/house brand cheapies (just so you get an idea of what a bad smoke is)- then plunk down some coin on some top shelf names. Most average cigar shops in NC don't even carry "true" top shelf brands- you'll be lucky to find anything above the 12.00 a stick price range in most stores.
The difference is this. Being in the US, we recognize the founders and owners of their respective businesses to be the very heart and soul of their projects (their businesses). Thus, we associate the new RYJ to be the real deal, since it is the only one associated with the heart and soul of the company and its brand.
It is not the same land. Not the same building. Not the same employees. But one of these two operations maintains the same spirit as the original RYJ, and I'm inclined to lean that towards the man behind the business, rather than to the external factors.. such as location.
Parataxis is considering it a counterfeit because it was a Cuban brand cigar.. with tobacco from Cuba. The new RYJ does not use such tobacco, and thus is nothing like the original from a materialistic standpoint.
So.. which is the counterfeit? The one that is stolen property, stolen ideas, and stolen recognition. Which one might that be.. hmm?
The brand of RYJ(Cuba) was in the making of Cuban cigars. If you move a company that is making Cuban cigars out of Cuba, you are no longer the same company, even if you use the same name. It comes down to whatever cigar smokers around the world think they are buying in an RYJ cigar, Cuban or Dominican Republic.
I seriously doubt anyone buying a R&J in the US is thinking they're getting a Cuban. The countries that have open trade with Cuba don't get the DR R&J's so there's no confusion there. Price wise, the Cubans and DR's sell for the same thing on the open market, so it's not like there's a hell of a lot of reason to rebrand a DR as a Cuban R&J.
What does make sense, is to manufacture an off brand with a fake band that says "Romeo Y Julieta", and it's one of the most widely counterfeited brands next to Cohiba. This is what parataxis was equating the DR R&J with, which is absurd. There's a difference between rolling a stick in your garage and printing out a counterfeit band and calling it a "Montecristo" with the intention of duping folks into thinking that they're getting a genuine Cuban Monte- than there is having two Montecristos- a Cuban and a Dominican.
They're both valid companies- and depending on which side of the fence you stand on, one is more "real" than the other- but the Dominican version is NOT a counterfeit or a bootleg or a knockoff. A Cadillac is a Cadillac, whether it's manufactured here or in China. You may think the Chinese model is cheap or inferior, but it's still a Cadillac. However, if you remove the name plates off a Chevy and put a Cadillac emblem on it with the intention of fooling gullible buyers into thinking that they're buying a Cadillac- you have made a bootleg, counterfeit knock off Cadillac.
I recognize the right of both companies to exist. Neither one is a counterfeit. One is more of the "real deal" to me. That's about it in a nutshell.
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As an aside, I just found out this place is right down the road from me:
http://www.outlawcigar.com/Default.aspx
http://www.outlawcigar.com/Default.aspx
While a Cadillac can be manufactured anywhere and still be a Cadillac, a Cuban cigar is not afforded the same manufacturing leeway. That's all I am saying. I agree with the other stuff you wrote.
I agree with Mr. Peat.
The Punch dbl maduro is a great tasting cigar but I found them to be of uneven quality. It seemed to me that every other cigar would not draw. After many years of experimentation I finally settled on Fuente maduro Rothchilds and Padron 2000 maduros.
My favorite Cuban is/was the Partagas Serie D No. 4.
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You've just said that you believe that a company's legitimacy is determined by its public perception. To consider that anything is to be determined by an external party is more than I can swallow.
If I start a coffee company here based on my ideas, my values, my principles and so on, and then it is nationalized after I move elsewhere to continue my company (that was born from my own efforts and ideas), you're telling me that since MY coffee company isn't in the same location, it's not the legitimate one?
Malarkey. A stolen idea is illegitimate by default: It's stolen.
Best cigar store in the USA to me. Wait till OpusX thats buddy of mine see you link that shop. Thats 1 of my 3 go to Cigar shops. You can not go wrong there. Go in and chat with Brad. In fact, I will be back there Aug 31 till around Sept 10 if you want to stop in and have a cigar. Just let me know.
I will have to disagree respectfully with this statement. I have found this to be false. Davidoff's in London carries Non-Cuban for example. As Davidoff stopped making Cubans back around 1991 or so. Same way with Dunhill. Thus they do have some Non-Cubans aka Davidoffs in the shop. Now the selection between the Cuban and Non-Cuban selection will be more Cuban of course. But to say they don't get Non-Cuban isn't true.
You can find other Non-Cuban cigars in Europe as well as their counter part thats Cuban. Also, in the UK and Europe Cuban cigars tend to have a different taste. You can apply this to make things like bubble gum, potato chips, and every thing you you can think of including soda. Why? Because their tastes is different than us and vice versa.
