Coticule Slurry on a Norton

[Gamma]

when you say that you ran a blade over the side of a prep stone a few times, leading to the scratches, are you saying that you literally passed the blade over the prep stone and not the slurry on the 8k?

Exactly - I honed on the prepstone - wasn't easy because it's small. I did so dry and after soaking. Soaking seemed to help.

And second, when you say that alox is tough stuff and the particle size isn't going to change, how is this the case when it is used in the T-I alox-diamond paste rated at ~10k JIS and abrasive (polishing) powder rated at 0.5 microns, or equivalent to crox?

The prep stone isn't rated 10k. It's coarse. You can get AlOx graded in grits across the board. It is friable but I don't see the particles breaking down significantly under a razor on a Norton 8k. The amount of pressure needed to reduce the size of the particles would defeat the effort on the 8k. Also - it's my feeling that the time spent on the 8k should be rather brief - this alone would not allow for any extensive change in the AlOx particles.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Okay, thanks for the clarification Gamma. One thing I will add to the Sham video discussion is that I asked him if a similar effect might be achieved with other 4k to 8k progressions, and he said, no, that it only worked in the case of Nortons. Is this because Norton 4k to 8k is not really JIS, but runs a little bit coarser, as has been alleged? Think I'll try to apply it to some 3k and 6k Suehiros that I just picked up to see what happens there. I have observed a similar effect occurring relative to swarf development in an Arkansas oil-stone progression, in the transition from soft to hard, but I haven't really figured it out systematically there yet.

 

[Gamma]

I'm not sure what the 'effect' you are referring to means.

But - it's my opinion that;
When you move to a higher grit and you see excessive swarf - you haven't done the work on the preceding stone to completion.

I do not believe that this is specific to Nortons - I've experienced the same thing with other synthetic stones.

I hone almost exclusively on Jnats now - When I finish on Botan correctly - I never see significant swarf in any of the following slurries.

 

[Doc226]

A Norton 8k is not capable of honing an edge to my personal shave-ready standards.
No way - no how. I don't care if almighty himself hones the blade, the resulting edge is only at the brink of being 'shaveable' - the edge will not go ATG without causing extreme pain for me.

Having said that - I do believe that there are people who are fine with that edge. To each their own. I have different needs and I'll be the judge of what shave-ready is for me.

I agree 100%, I have shaved off the Norton 8K and Naniwa 8K and bith are severely lacking.

There are plenty of people that find this acceptable and I say-more power to them.
I am en edge snob.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I'm not sure what the 'effect' you are referring to means.

But - it's my opinion that;
When you move to a higher grit and you see excessive swarf - you haven't done the work on the preceding stone to completion.

I do not believe that this is specific to Nortons - I've experienced the same thing with other synthetic stones.

I hone almost exclusively on Jnats now - When I finish on Botan correctly - I never see significant swarf in any of the following slurries.

The effect in question is indeed the appearance of swarf. And I'm inclined to agree with you. For me, it's still about determining what is "excessive" or "premature" swarf on a given stone. From soft to hard to black Arkansas, if I see swarf on the black, then it's time to move back down, as you say. Soft to hard Ark would seem to be the "sweet spot" there. I like the idea of a swarf stepping stone approach here immensely. If I follow your statement about the jnats, then the fact that even a slight swarf is occurring as an acceptable practice on the Norton 8k means that it isn't fine enough to act as a true finisher, but needs a higher stone in the process. By trying a 3k to 6k true JIS progression, I want to see if the swarf level is similar to what Sham shows with Norton 4k to 8k.

 

[Gamma]

Honestly- I don't recall the last time I saw any swarf in my slurry after Botan.
I have to assume there is some there - I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Doc226]

Here you can see slurry with the "finishing" nagura