Building tips - only fails!

[Berwick12]

I was trying to glue up some large pieces of wood today. The old trick is you sprinkle in some salt to keep them from moving around. I had no table salt.

Kosher salt does not work! It is too coarse. Especially when you're dealing with some long and wide strips of laminate.


Anybody else have some home improvement fails or pitfalls to avoid?

 

[Jay21]

I still prefer drills with a chuck key over keyless chucks.

Don’t forget to wet some wood before adding glue. Some glues have that in the instructions, which we all never read anyway.

Wait a full 24 hours between paint coats. Be patient because you’ll hate the results otherwise. Trust me on that one.

 

[Mojo88]

Quality paint is more expensive. Not true, a higher quality product covers better and goes farther. You save money and time with better material.

Cheap paint brushes are fine for most jobs. Again not true, better brushes hold more paint and provide a better end run result.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I used to do a lot of laminate work.... we used 1/8th inch dowels on the surface.... to keep the laminate from touching the substrate... Pull them out one at a time to get the two surfaces to meet... no bubbles... etc.

Gluing up woods.... matching the grains the way you want them to look.. is an art. I still have a few dozen bar clamps, though I've been out of that business for years now.... The final finishes are fun too... there are several that work well for the hand oiled look... my preference.

 

[Mojo88]

I used to do a lot of laminate work.... we used 1/8th inch dowels on the surface.... to keep the laminate from touching the substrate... Pull them out one at a time to get the two surfaces to meet... no bubbles... etc.

Gluing up woods.... matching the grains the way you want them to look.. is an art. I still have a few dozen bar clamps, though I've been out of that business for years now.... The final finishes are fun too... there are several that work well for the hand oiled look... my preference.

I’ll add a few that I have seen: Not allowing materials to acclimate or check moisture content because someone doesn’t have time is a disaster. All wood should be at 8% moisture content and properly dried. Laminate and solid surface if not acclimated can split . And my favorite, not mixing catalyzed material thoroughly is a recipe for failure.

 

[StillShaving]

Quick setting joint compound (AKA hot mud) is not workable for nearly as long if trying to tape with it. For example a 45 minute setting mud might have 20 minutes of good working time before its glueing properties start to change, so taping an inside corner with it might turn into a failure.

Likewise, when mixing up Bondo or 2-part epoxy it always seems to harden or become unworkable before the advertised time limit is reached.

 

[StillShaving]

Misleading product labeling regarding Plastic Wood Filler (particularly the DAP brand with a pink lid). It is easy to apply and sand and is listed as both an interior and exterior product. It is fine to patch nail holes on painted interior trim but is worthless on exterior trim. It fails at the first sign of water/rain.

 

[borwish]

Never use quick action clamps to glue up small pieces. The jaws are designed with a tilt and that angle will transfer into a gap on one side of the glue line.

Old school real hide glue is much more water resistant than pva glue manufacturers will have you believe. Don't convince yourself that you can use a tiny amount as a "temporary" glue and try soaking the piece in water to dissolve the glue joint later. Days submerged in water did nothing and I had to saw the glue joint apart.

 

[Mojo88]

Several years ago I worked for Porter Paint. During the time I worked there new home developments in my territory were literally springing up over night. Part of my job was meeting with contractors/ builders on site and helping them with specifications for homes. One product in particular that we sold was specifically for exterior cedar. It was a proven product with several years of success. I was in a development where the homes started at 800k plus and the homeowners were extremely demanding and very critical.

I pulled up to a very large cedar home and saw a painting contractor starting to work on a large cedar home. I noticed he was using Kilz which is meant for spot priming only and in all reality is an interior product. This contractor decided to use Kilz on the entire exterior and I tried explaining from experience that it wasn’t a product designed for that application. I showed him the data sheet and he still wasn’t convinced.

I went by the house for several years and watched it fail. On one occasion I saw a contractor trying to remove the peeling failing coatings from the home. As it turned out I knew him from other projects and he was beside himself trying to fix the issue. I told him about the first contractor and he said he had used Kilz on several homes and was in the process of multiple lawsuits. Eventually he went bankrupt and moved on.

Data sheets aren’t suggestions and when someone with experience is trying to help it’s probably a good idea to listen or at least get a couple opinions.

 

[StillShaving]

One common failure is trying to match some existing stain. Perhaps the probably of failure is higher than success? YMMV. It is especially difficult to stain match when considering different wood species, grain patterns, sanding/smoothness.

Testing out some old cans of Golden Oak, Dark Walnut, American Walnut. None of them were a close match. Got some Red Oak, still no match. I mixed Golden-Oak and Red-Oak at a 2-to-1 ratio to get something closer but far from perfect results

 

[Mojo88]

One common failure is trying to match some existing stain. Perhaps the probably of failure is higher than success? YMMV. It is especially difficult to stain match when considering different wood species, grain patterns, sanding/smoothness.

Testing out some old cans of Golden Oak, Dark Walnut, American Walnut. None of them were a close match. Got some Red Oak, still no match. I mixed Golden-Oak and Red-Oak at a 2-to-1 ratio to get something closer but far from perfect results

View attachment 1993471

I sold commercial wood coatings and finishes, early in my career I was a shader ( I mixed and matched paints and stains ) You are on the right track but the red is adding too much depth. Try 4 parts golden oak to 1/2 part red oak to start, use teaspoons for measuring . Once you think you are close put some topcoat on it, it will change the look dramatically. Sand at either 180 or 150. Oak to pine is tough you can get close , but it won’t be perfect. We used to call that color you have Troyer golden oak. It was a standby for older golden oak on cabinets, furniture and trim. Another factor is the top coat has aged. It’s adding an ochre depth.

 

[StillShaving]

I sold commercial wood coatings and finishes, early in my career I was a shader ( I mixed and matched paints and stains ) You are on the right track but the red is adding too much depth. Try 4 parts golden oak to 1/2 part red oak to start, use teaspoons for measuring . Once you think you are close put some topcoat on it, it will change the look dramatically. Sand at either 180 or 150. Oak to pine is tough you can get close , but it won’t be perfect. We used to call that color you have Troyer golden oak. It was a standby for older golden oak on cabinets, furniture and trim. Another factor is the top coat has aged. It’s adding an ochre depth.

Is Troyer a brand name or a more specific shade of Golden Oak? I think you are right in that it needs more of the golden shade, but with more depth or touch of redness. I have gotten something okay for the time being, but if it this were a piece of furniture to match, I might still be looking.

The original shade is on a 35 year old built-in, where its original purpose was to hold a CRT television among other things. It must still have its original finish and could use refinishing. Sometimes the existing finish looks a touch orange, which if I understood your comment that would be due to the top coat aging? Where the old polyurethane or whatever was the original top layer has changed color either due to UV or oxidation? I noticed a couple of spots that were looking thin or worn off completely.

For the time being I am trying to get creative and add a small open-cabinet/wall-extension which can support a larger flatscreen TV while leaving access to the existing back wall for electrical plugs, cable/antenna, internet, speaker, etc. So most of this wooden structure will be hidden behind the TV, but not from all angles. It is a stop gap to give more time to think about reconfiguring the whole room.

 

[Mojo88]

Is Troyer a brand name or a more specific shade of Golden Oak? I think you are right in that it needs more of the golden shade, but with more depth or touch of redness. I have gotten something okay for the time being, but if it this were a piece of furniture to match, I might still be looking.

The original shade is on a 35 year old built-in, where its original purpose was to hold a CRT television among other things. It must still have its original finish and could use refinishing. Sometimes the existing finish looks a touch orange, which if I understood your comment that would be due to the top coat aging? Where the old polyurethane or whatever was the original top layer has changed color either due to UV or oxidation? I noticed a couple of spots that were looking thin or worn off completely.

For the time being I am trying to get creative and add a small open-cabinet/wall-extension which can support a larger flatscreen TV while leaving access to the existing back wall for electrical plugs, cable/antenna, internet, speaker, etc. So most of this wooden structure will be hidden behind the TV, but not from all angles. It is a stop gap to give more time to think about reconfiguring the whole room.

Troyer’s golden oak is something local we made. A couple suggestions : Find a commercial paint or a distribution center that sells professional wood coatings. Take a sample of the wood along with your existing wood sample that you are working on sanded the way you want it. If there is nothing close or they aren’t able to help find a local cabinet maker. Typically older shops will be familiar with that color as it’s a standard color that has been around for years.

 

[StillShaving]

I am sure someone can relate....to watch out for those small powerful magnets that are sometimes found in other tools. I was driving in some screws with a drill/driver and switching between a Philips bit and a Torx bit. After finishing and putting away the tools I could not find the Philips bit. I looked around but gave up on finding it. Only to later find it firmly attached to the work light that I had been using. Attached to the small magnet intended to hold up the work light.

 

[Rudy Vey]

Quality paint is more expensive. Not true, a higher quality product covers better and goes farther. You save money and time with better material.

Cheap paint brushes are fine for most jobs. Again not true, better brushes hold more paint and provide a better end run result.

My father was a painter by trade and had his own business after WWII, he swore by getting the best paint and the best paint brushes!! I still use only the best brushes, yes, you have to take care of them but they last forever. Still have a few of my dads old brushes....

 

[Rudy Vey]

One common failure is trying to match some existing stain. Perhaps the probably of failure is higher than success? YMMV. It is especially difficult to stain match when considering different wood species, grain patterns, sanding/smoothness.

Testing out some old cans of Golden Oak, Dark Walnut, American Walnut. None of them were a close match. Got some Red Oak, still no match. I mixed Golden-Oak and Red-Oak at a 2-to-1 ratio to get something closer but far from perfect results

View attachment 1993471

After being not successful with the typical canned oil based stains, like the Minwax products, I tried dye stains and never looked back. these are water based stains and are very uniform, something I never seen with any oil based stains. I made up a mix, maybe 22/23 years ago and used it on all the furniture I build, works perfect on all woods (white oak, cherry, mahogany, red oak etc). Trick is to make a lot of it....I made up a whole gallon and still have a good part left. Wet the wood before use to raise the grain, and sand down after drying; for oak i do this twice. Dye stains come in powder form and dissolve in water.

 

[borwish]

watch out for those small powerful magnets that are sometimes found in other tools

Last year I was helping a friend replace the timing belt on his car. We started in the evening and had to call it quits because it got too dark. As I was packing up my tools I discovered that my 10mm and 1/4 extension were missing. When I came back to finish my buddy had found my missing tools. They were stuck to the bottom magnets of the lantern style light were were using. We were holding that lantern and looking everywhere for the missing items. lol

 

[StillShaving]

I was trying to glue up some large pieces of wood today. The old trick is you sprinkle in some salt to keep them from moving around. I had no table salt.

Kosher salt does not work! It is too coarse. Especially when you're dealing with some long and wide strips of laminate.


Anybody else have some home improvement fails or pitfalls to avoid?

Related to wood glue ups.....This video was suggested to me by Youtube and I watched it today. It is divided into 3 or 4 sections. In the first section the presenter (Jim Heavey) goes over the different types of Titebond glues. In the 2nd section starting at 5:25 he shares his method for glueing up panels, how he begins clamping at one end of the panel and working towards the other end. He includes a pressure gauge demonstration to help show the amount of force which corresponds to the glue manufacturers recommendation.

While I had a basic understanding of the differences between Titebond I, II, and III, I found the rest of this video instructive. I am aware of the salt technique but have not done any major glue-ups or tried using it because of my level of project building experience. So, I cannot judge its suitability to a specific project, but based on this presentation one should rarely need the added friction.

 

[njpaddy]

Quality paint is more expensive. Not true, a higher quality product covers better and goes farther. You save money and time with better material.

A quality primer and paint (usually S.Williams or B.Moore) worked fine until we bought a 40 yo house. One bath had previously been wallpapered. The wall paper had been removed and painted over, but the paint was peeling. I did some sanding and my usual quality primer/paint. In less than a year, it was peeling again. At a local paint store a guy suggested using Zinsser Gardz as a sealer for the problem bath, a nicotine stained master bedroom, and 2 bedrooms painted milkshake pink. I repainted all the rooms using Gardz to seal, before primer and paint. We lived in the house almost 20 years and I never had to repaint any of the rooms.

For those in apartments, who wonder why trying to remove a stain on the wall takes off the paint, here's probably the reason why. In a prior apartment, they offered to repaint every 5 years. Painters came in with a 5 gallon container of cheap paint. They poured at least a gallon of paint into a separate container and replaced it with water. I kicked them out after the first room, and did my own from then on. We downsized from house to apartment at the end of 2020. We're not allowed to repaint, but we're nice to the maintenance guy, so he gives us small containers of real paint for needed touch ups.