Atheists please

[Confilo]

I sort of agree with the above and I must say that I have found little tolerance for atheists by other people, so I keep it quiet until someone tries to drown me with his/her religious experiences.
IMHO, atheism is not a belief; is knowledge.

 

[bob.e]

I don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster I am not now or ever will I be a Pastafarian. I shall follow the Invisible Pink Unicorn

 

[BlueBloodKiller]

"Thank God I'm atheist!"

 

[endcycle]

I'm an atheist - out and proud.

my favorite skepticism resource is "the skeptic's guide to the universe" - one of my favorite podcasts. Search it on itunes. Very worth the listen.

And for people who insist that atheism is a belief structure like religion, there's a great analogy that's descriptive and useful:

Atheism is to religion as bald is to hair color.


(edit- or, for B&B purposes, "as shaved is to facial hair")

 

[bythbook]

I don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster I am not now or ever will I be a Pastafarian. I shall follow the Invisible Pink Unicorn

I'm sorry you feel that way. However, His Noodley Goodness doesn't really mind.




.

 

[TickTock]

Here's a huge list of skeptical, humanist, critical thinking, pro-science, and atheistic resources, compiled by "Skepdad":

http://www.resurch.org/

 

[AndrewWiggin]

I'll keep this short because I don't want to start a flamewar... Are any of you actually willing to hear out a religion, from a qualified person (priest, rabbi, etc)? I think for the most part incendiary priests/pastors/etc. have labeled atheists unfairly, and there are a significant amount of Christians at least (I have to speak for myself, I'm ignorant of Jewish or Muslim resources) who are willing to meet you as an atheist where you are.

Many of the ministries I have been involved in are interested in an honest intellectual and philosophical debate with atheists, and I'm not talking about Kirk Cameron using a banana to prove God exists (even I think that's stupid).

Anyway, from my perspective of hoping that you would join me in what I know to be wonderful, I want to post a link.

http://www.fixed-point.org/

There are debates with Hitchens and Dawkins, as well as evolution and creationism debates there. I think you might at least be interested in hearing those debates.

 

[blackfoot]

The thing I love about Atheism is, you can have an intelligent debate with Atheist and pagans. (Sorry, I don't mean to make act as if you are all the same. I basically mean non-Christian, I guess.) An officer on second shift and I get into some interesting discussions. I, of course, am a believer in God. My friend at work is a Pagan. I work with some very religious people also. I realised one day at work that the person whose beliefs are closest to mine (at work) was the Pagan. Unfortunately, as mentioned, Christians tend to get so hell-bent on self-justification, they refuse to see the other side. When you can see the common ground, I think you begin to get a better idea of what you believe. This is why I like to see this type of conversation and am glad everyone is playing like gentlemen.

Also, in reference to the combat statement, "When you are hiding behind your friend, using his body to shield you from bullets, there isn't a man alive that doesn't cry for either God or his mother. I know, I've been there." A quote I've always enjoyed, told to me by a man who was an Atheist because of the things he saw in war. Like I said, I am not Atheist. However, looking at how humans act, war, crime, greed, injustice, I don't blame anybody that doesn't believe in God and would gladly defend their beliefs as strongly as my own.

 

[endcycle]

I'll keep this short because I don't want to start a flamewar... Are any of you actually willing to hear out a religion, from a qualified person (priest, rabbi, etc)? I think for the most part incendiary priests/pastors/etc. have labeled atheists unfairly, and there are a significant amount of Christians at least (I have to speak for myself, I'm ignorant of Jewish or Muslim resources) who are willing to meet you as an atheist where you are.

Many of the ministries I have been involved in are interested in an honest intellectual and philosophical debate with atheists, and I'm not talking about Kirk Cameron using a banana to prove God exists (even I think that's stupid).

Anyway, from my perspective of hoping that you would join me in what I know to be wonderful, I want to post a link.

http://www.fixed-point.org/

There are debates with Hitchens and Dawkins, as well as evolution and creationism debates there. I think you might at least be interested in hearing those debates.

To answer for myself, I came from a background of Judaism. I grew up pretty devout, and in my teenage years actually spent a lot of time with our Rabbi (a man whose guidance I still seek in personal / non-spiritual matters, very smart, very kind, and absolutely hilarious guy) learning of the history of Judaism and religions in general.

I read through the old testament in hebrew (which I used to speak fluently) and 2 translations of the new. I read parts of the Book of the Dead (ancient Egyptian funeral texts) and all of the Koran.

One of my best friends growing up is now a Southern Baptist preacher.

I think I know my religion, to sum up what I was just saying.

The more I read, and the more I learned, the more barbaric the whole concept became to me. The more I saw people using religion for entirely selfish and fearful purposes, the more I questioned it. And then one day I was talking with my rabbi, and he asked me "do you believe in God?"

I said yes, reflexively. I mean, who wouldn't believe in God?

That night, I laid there thinking about that question - why did it disturb me so much? Why was my stomach in knots? And then... why did I believe in God? What evidence was there that Jews were right and the ancient Romans were wrong? Why was Yahweh / Jehovah right and Zeus wasn't? Why would Allah be right and Buddha wrong?

I realized that the only evidence we accepted as fact in any religion was based completely on ancient texts written by people who didn't understand how the world worked and, as humans, tried to explain everything with parables and the supernatural.

Then I started beating myself up - I mean, I was crying at night, wondering why my faith wasn't strong enough to allow me to ignore all this like so many others could. I couldn't get past it.

I continued for years to think about it, and one day I came to a solid and inescapable conclusion - no matter what I thought about the existence of God, I was still a good person. Feeling like a bad person for not believing in God just made no sense anymore - and suddenly I was free.

The weight that moment lifted off me was incredible. When people talk about being born again - that was what it was like.

Still, I played it like I was a religious Jew to my family and friends - I stayed in the closet like a gay man in the 1980s. I was terrified of the repercussions of people knowing. I thought that I would be looked down on and lose my community.

I couldn't do it for long though - living a lie is as immoral as you can get, so finally I told my family. They didn't blink. I told my friends. None of my close friends cared, though I did get some static from a few less-close people who were fairly evangelical (but that's okay, I was looking for a reason to stop talking to those guys anyway ).

I am always open to theological debates, because it's interesting - but when people come to me thinking that atheists are only atheists because we haven't heard the word of god, I get annoyed. Most of us come from religious backgrounds, and already know the good word and the works. We're not ignorant - we choose to not believe in a being for which we find the evidence lacking. We're not deluded - we just choose not to hide behind a blind banner of faith.

 

[Emmett]

I grew up in a devout Christian household and even contemplated going to seminary. Cutting out all the teenage-angsty stuff in the middle, I am now an atheist and very at peace with that. It's not so much that I don't believe, but that I don't believe there IS something to believe. Things just are, and I'm okay with that.

Edit to say that per the above, I don't tend to discuss religion much. This is probably the last you will see of me in this thread.

 

[fleshdunce]

And for people who insist that atheism is a belief structure like religion, there's a great analogy that's descriptive and useful:

Atheism is to religion as bald is to hair color.


(edit- or, for B&B purposes, "as shaved is to facial hair")

Atheism is a belief structure similar to religion sure, it is a set of beliefs, feelings, and ideas that shape and mold your opinions and your own life. Stemming from your atheism you make certain decisions, hold certain opinions, and view the world in a certain way.

Since there is no way to affirm with any knowable evidence that such a being doesn't exist though you are making as bold of a statement as saying that such God or Gods do in exist.

 

[masonjarjar]

If you are a believer (in any religion, faith, group etc.) and/or are offended by the prospect of an Atheist discussion I will urge you to simply avoid this particular thread.

ok we'll see if that happens...

 

[mmack66]

ok we'll see if that happens...

It's already been blown.

 

[Emmett]

Atheism is a belief structure similar to religion sure, it is a set of beliefs, feelings, and ideas that shape and mold your opinions and your own life. Stemming from your atheism you make certain decisions, hold certain opinions, and view the world in a certain way.

Atheism is just a worldview. Religion is both a worldview and a ritual practice. There are some atheist groups and conferences, sure, but without a set canon of beliefs, every atheist develops his/her own understanding of life and any individual practices that support that view.

 

[endcycle]

Atheism is a belief structure similar to religion sure, it is a set of beliefs, feelings, and ideas that shape and mold your opinions and your own life. Stemming from your atheism you make certain decisions, hold certain opinions, and view the world in a certain way.

Since there is no way to affirm with any knowable evidence that such a being doesn't exist though you are making as bold of a statement as saying that such God or Gods do in exist.

I'm going to be as polite about this as I can -
you're wrong.

It's not about saying that gods do or don't definitively exist.

You, for example are an atheist already. You don't believe in Buddha. You don't believe in Ra. I just take it one more step further and say that I don't believe that Jehovah / Jesus exists. I'm not saying that it DOESN'T exist - but I am saying that I see no evidence that's compelling enough to say that the deity DOES exist.

I AM reasonably certain that I'm right about this, BUT as any atheist will tell you, it's always possible that we're wrong. Presented with adequate evidence, we'd change our minds. It's just that the evidence so far shown is inadequate at best.

If there's any "belief structure", it's a belief that evidence is important for conclusions. I suppose that's as close to a generic structure as you can get for atheists in general - otherwise, it's not a matter of faith or belief.


To put it another way - take Santa Claus. The guy actually existed- we have historical records about his basis, etc etc. Ask yourself "why don't I believe in the myth of Santa bouncing all over the world and delivering toys to boys and girls?" Then take that answer, and substitute the word "god" for "santa". I hope that makes sense, and again, I hope I'm staying polite here. It's sometimes hard to judge my own tone on these forums.

 

[masonjarjar]

For instance, consider the Anthropic Principle, which proposes that the very fact that human beings are here and able to observe and contemplate the universe is the result of a finely tuned system that had a beginning and contained physical laws and relationships that could only have resulted in the eventual emergence of human life. Such a universe would not be a random collection of events and forces as science once thought but rather a finely tuned system that was set into motion by an intelligent designer.

The problem is, there are many people that carry ONE very strictly defined idea of what that "designer" is and they're totally unwilling to consider any other options.

I consider myself an atheist, but I too, would like to know how the universe oriented itself so that I might be here to type this.

It is a curious question, but one that has not been answered to my satisfaction as of yet, by any faith or religion (or science or philosophy).

 

[masonjarjar]

I'll keep this short because I don't want to start a flamewar... Are any of you actually willing to hear out a religion, from a qualified person (priest, rabbi, etc)?

To be honest, I think most of us have "been there, done that"

None of us come to our conclusions lightly. We're up against thousands of years of cultural history here. I doubt that many atheists would proclaim their view without many, many hours of thoughtful consideration. And yes, maybe even prayer. Afterall, you have to test drive a car before you decide if you're going to buy it or not, right>?

 

[Mr. Igg]

We're not ignorant - we choose to not believe in a being for which we find the evidence lacking. We're not deluded - we just choose not to hide behind a blind banner of faith.

Nice discussion so far.

On this particular post, your last two sentences confused me, as they seem to imply followers of (a/any) religion are inherently hiding "behind a blind banner of faith". Is that true for you? And more importantly, is that true for people of faith? Does this mean they've, to trot out the bumper sticker, checked their brains at the door? It seems to me at least one of the questions is, "What defines evidence?" Many theologians who seem to be able to think pretty well, and who have compiled what they believe is adequate evidence from which to make their (admittedly necessary) leap of faith.

Several questions come to mind, but I'll stick with one for now: can a freethinker become a follower of a recognized major religion? If so, how, and if not, why not?

MODS: I often see OPs try to scope threads, and the threads spread outside that scope, while still being "fair". In this case, the OP was for athesists to gather together; but, that scope seems to have expanded to a broader, respectful, discussion of athesism and theism. I posted in response to what I perceived as that broader scope, but if my post falls outside the fair scope of the thread, please delete!

 

[masonjarjar]

I'm going to be as polite about this as I can -
you're wrong.

It's not about saying that gods do or don't definitively exist.

You, for example are an atheist already. You don't believe in Buddha. You don't believe in Ra. I just take it one more step further and say that I don't believe that Jehovah / Jesus exists. I'm not saying that it DOESN'T exist - but I am saying that I see no evidence that's compelling enough to say that the deity DOES exist.

I AM reasonably certain that I'm right about this, BUT as any atheist will tell you, it's always possible that we're wrong. Presented with adequate evidence, we'd change our minds. It's just that the evidence so far shown is inadequate at best.

If there's any "belief structure", it's a belief that evidence is important for conclusions. I suppose that's as close to a generic structure as you can get for atheists in general - otherwise, it's not a matter of faith or belief.


To put it another way - take Santa Claus. The guy actually existed- we have historical records about his basis, etc etc. Ask yourself "why don't I believe in the myth of Santa bouncing all over the world and delivering toys to boys and girls?" Then take that answer, and substitute the word "god" for "santa". I hope that makes sense, and again, I hope I'm staying polite here. It's sometimes hard to judge my own tone on these forums.

+1

The atheist assumes nothing. The theist says "we believe in God" and tries to explain. The atheist isn't convinced.

The atheist does not say with 100% certainty there is no "God" - the atheist simply says "show me."

The theist says with 100% certainty that there IS a "God" - then says "prove to me that I'm wrong"

The atheist says, it's not for me to prove anything, I didn't say there was a "God" in the first place.

 

[Mr. Igg]

<snip>

It's not about saying that gods do or don't definitively exist.

<snip>

I AM reasonably certain that I'm right about this, BUT as any atheist will tell you, it's always possible that we're wrong. Presented with adequate evidence, we'd change our minds. It's just that the evidence so far shown is inadequate at best.

If there's any "belief structure", it's a belief that evidence is important for conclusions. I suppose that's as close to a generic structure as you can get for atheists in general - otherwise, it's not a matter of faith or belief.

<snip>

This was helpful, but let me ask so that I track with you: what's an agnostic? Maybe it's my old Latin classes (in public high school! ) coming to the fore, but I thought atheism (a-theism) was a declaritive statement that there is no (a-) god; whereas, agnostics were the probablistic camp (it's possible, but not probable, there's a god). In that possibly simplistic categorization, atheism is a strong assertion. I just want to ensure I understand the construct definitions in play, to make sure I'm on your page.