'46 '47 Milord question

From reading the Wiki, it seems that the '46 Milord should have end caps, and a smooth area above the TTO knob. Seems to imply that the area above the TTO knob would be knurled on a '47 (as on the Super Speed of that year, as opposed to a Ranger Tech of the preceding year).

On Mr_Razor's site, there is a Milord listed as a '47, that has a smooth area above the TTO knob. Can anyone confirm when the change occurred? Has anyone ever seen (or is there?) a Milord with un-notched center bar and knurled area above the TTO knob? Or were the '46/'47s' the same?

Seems an inconsistency between the Wiki and Achim's site here, and of course I realize that this stuff is not always cut and dried, or easy to verify for that matter.

I would assume that Achim dated his set based upon the date of the ad he has. I would not doubt that the Milord Techs were made into the early part of 1947. As for the '47 Super Speed style Milords, I do not have one myself, nor have I had one, but that does not mean they didn't exist. It makes no sense for them not to have. Maybe someone will chime in that has one.

The 1947 Ad´s are the first that I know, that shows the Milord with endcaps. I know no confirmation for 1946. The first Ad for the completely knurling handle of a Milord is from 1949.

mr-razor said:

The 1947 Ad´s are the first that I know, that shows the Milord with endcaps. I know no confirmation for 1946. The first Ad for the completely knurling handle of a Milord is from 1949.

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Do you have any un-notched completely knurled Milords, Achim?

AsylumGuido said:

Do you have any un-notched completely knurled Milords, Achim?

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No and I´ve never seen one

I don't think there are any inconsistencies here. There might have been a changeover period at some point in 1947 but that does not mean it has to be January 1st. I get the impression from Krumholz's writing that the Milord change was made to be a gold plated 1948 version of the Super Speed with the notched bar. That is also how the WIKI shows the razor. Maybe the WIKI should say 1948 and not 1947.

Len

Thanks guys. Sounds like a high probability the '47 is identical to the '46. While it sounds possible an all knurled no-notch Milord exists, if neither AsylumGuido or Achim have ever seen one, I am betting not. Very few examples they've not seen between them, and I would think it would take something rarer than a Milord to be unique to their experience.

T Rick said:

From reading the Wiki, it seems that the '46 Milord should have end caps, and a smooth area above the TTO knob. Seems to imply that the area above the TTO knob would be knurled on a '47 (as on the Super Speed of that year, as opposed to a Ranger Tech of the preceding year).

On Mr_Razor's site, there is a Milord listed as a '47, that has a smooth area above the TTO knob. Can anyone confirm when the change occurred? Has anyone ever seen (or is there?) a Milord with un-notched center bar and knurled area above the TTO knob? Or were the '46/'47s' the same?

Seems an inconsistency between the Wiki and Achim's site here, and of course I realize that this stuff is not always cut and dried, or easy to verify for that matter.

Click to expand...

AsylumGuido said:

Do you have any un-notched completely knurled Milords, Achim?

Click to expand...

mr-razor said:

No and I´ve never seen one

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T Rick said:

Thanks guys. Sounds like a high probability the '47 is identical to the '46. While it sounds possible an all knurled no-notch Milord exists, if neither AsylumGuido or Achim have ever seen one, I am betting not. Very few examples they've not seen between them, and I would think it would take something rarer than a Milord to be unique to their experience.

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Gents, I must say I'm stunned (and feeling a bit daft...).

Just before bed, I for some reason began to wonder what year my Milord was- couldn't remember (bought over a month ago, or in RAD terms, 50-60 razors ago). I finally shaved with it last week.

So I pulled the Milord box from under a Big Fellow, opened it, and what did I find? The answer to my own question (well, sort of), and the very razor I'd asked about- an all knurled, un notched Milord!

I know this statement demands pics. I'll have to shoot some that show the un-notched center bar with the area above the TTO. For now, all I had shot and uploaded (from my file labeled '47 Milord, no less!) are these two.





That's a hoot, isn't it? BTW, note the profile of the blade tray. It doesn't follow the lines of a '47 Super Speed, but of the no date and later notched Super Speed.

T Rick said:

BTW, note the profile of the blade tray. It doesn't follow the lines of a '47 Super Speed, but of the no date and later notched Super Speed.

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What am I missing here? I am looking at my 47ss, and can see no difference between that and this. Could you explain about the profile of the blade tray?

amishmotorboat said:

What am I missing here? I am looking at my 47ss, and can see no difference between that and this. Could you explain about the profile of the blade tray?

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Yes, better with pics.

First, the '47 Super Speed. Note the lines above the safety bars and smooth rounded transition up the slope.



Now a notched model (this was my '51 black tip, but most if not all of the no date '48 and forward Super Speeds carried this profile- note the crease above the safety bar, and a bit different profile up to the blade tray).



I swore earlier that I'd seen a notched center bar Super Speed with the '47 profile blade tray on eBay some time back. I now think either I was mistaken, or it was quite the anomaly, as every no date I've seen since has had the later style tray. And I've been searching (doubt I missed many Super Speeds at all on eBay in the last 2 months).

Hmmm.
Give me just a second here and I'll get a pic uploaded of my (or what I thought was my) 47ss. It has the wings, and a crease.


edit: here it is. I can adjust the size in photobucket if this is too large for people.



Do we both have very unusual razors from this date, or do you have two?

Well I'll be!

My '47 SS is quite "normal" (in fact I have two, just the same). Every other '47 SS I've seen-until now anyway, has also been the same (only variation I'd seen was a "shoulder" on the handle on some, as pointed out recently by Country Joe).

I do believe yours is quite rare. Let's see what the folks who've been doing this a while have to say.

I wonder if this increases, or decreases the chances I really did see a no-notch with the earlier blade tray profile (FWIW, that profile is virtually the same on my '41 Ranger Tech and my '46/'47 Aristocrat).

T Rick said:

I wonder if this increases, or decreases the chances I really did see a no-notch with the earlier blade tray profile (FWIW, that profile is virtually the same on my '41 Ranger Tech and my '46/'47 Aristocrat).

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No idea. Do you suppose mine was a sort of transitional one, where they were still using up the old doors but had already switched to the new plate? If that's the case then it would decrease the chances, you would think.
But then seeing a picture of one would tend to increase the odds.

T Rick said:

Gents, I must say I'm stunned (and feeling a bit daft...).

Just before bed, I for some reason began to wonder what year my Milord was- couldn't remember (bought over a month ago, or in RAD terms, 50-60 razors ago). I finally shaved with it last week.

So I pulled the Milord box from under a Big Fellow, opened it, and what did I find? The answer to my own question (well, sort of), and the very razor I'd asked about- an all knurled, un notched Milord!

I know this statement demands pics. I'll have to shoot some that show the un-notched center bar with the area above the TTO. For now, all I had shot and uploaded (from my file labeled '47 Milord, no less!) are these two.

That's a hoot, isn't it? BTW, note the profile of the blade tray. It doesn't follow the lines of a '47 Super Speed, but of the no date and later notched Super Speed.

Click to expand...

That´s absolute great! I´m learning every day. Thanks for posting.

T Rick said:

Gents, I must say I'm stunned (and feeling a bit daft...).

Just before bed, I for some reason began to wonder what year my Milord was- couldn't remember (bought over a month ago, or in RAD terms, 50-60 razors ago). I finally shaved with it last week.

So I pulled the Milord box from under a Big Fellow, opened it, and what did I find? The answer to my own question (well, sort of), and the very razor I'd asked about- an all knurled, un notched Milord!

I know this statement demands pics. I'll have to shoot some that show the un-notched center bar with the area above the TTO. For now, all I had shot and uploaded (from my file labeled '47 Milord, no less!) are these two.

That's a hoot, isn't it? BTW, note the profile of the blade tray. It doesn't follow the lines of a '47 Super Speed, but of the no date and later notched Super Speed.

Click to expand...

I would have bet that they existed. There is no reason why there would not be a gold plated Milord version of each Ranger Tech/Super Speed. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

T Rick said:

Well I'll be!

My '47 SS is quite "normal" (in fact I have two, just the same). Every other '47 SS I've seen-until now anyway, has also been the same (only variation I'd seen was a "shoulder" on the handle on some, as pointed out recently by Country Joe).

I do believe yours is quite rare. Let's see what the folks who've been doing this a while have to say.

I wonder if this increases, or decreases the chances I really did see a no-notch with the earlier blade tray profile (FWIW, that profile is virtually the same on my '41 Ranger Tech and my '46/'47 Aristocrat).

Click to expand...

MTGrayling has documented these variants which he calls a Ranger Tech/Super Speed Hybrid having characteristics of both. This is not surprising at all given Gillette's history of using all manufacturing stock. The transition from RT to SS would logically including some razors made with a mixture of the parts. That is why the Old Type ball end handles were used on all Goodwills and the earliest NEW's. It is also why at least seven different gold razor variations appeared in the Red & Black Sets of the 1930's.

AsylumGuido said:

MTGrayling has documented these variants which he calls a Ranger Tech/Super Speed Hybrid having characteristics of both. This is not surprising at all given Gillette's history of using all manufacturing stock. The transition from RT to SS would logically including some razors made with a mixture of the parts. That is why the Old Type ball end handles were used on all Goodwills and the earliest NEW's. It is also why at least seven different gold razor variations appeared in the Red & Black Sets of the 1930's.

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So which is more commonly seen in a '47 Super Speed in your experience, the old "smooth" profile blade tray, or the newer "creased" profile blade tray?

And have you ever seen a notched Super Speed with the old smooth blade tray profile? (That's the one I swore I saw on eBay in an undated Super Speed some time back, but have not been able to find an example to verify).

And as always, thanks very much for sharing your extensive knowledge on these with us!!!

T Rick said:

So which is more commonly seen in a '47 Super Speed in your experience, the old "smooth" profile blade tray, or the newer "creased" profile blade tray?

And have you ever seen a notched Super Speed with the old smooth blade tray profile? (That's the one I swore I saw on eBay in an undated Super Speed some time back, but have not been able to find an example to verify).

And as always, thanks very much for sharing your extensive knowledge on these with us!!!

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I have 4 1947 Super Speeds. Two have smooth trays, two are creased.

I have 17 other '40's type Super Speeds including a '48 version in it's original cardboard box. They all have creased trays. But I'll bet a plain tray notched version will show up eventually.

Len

Oldguy said:

I have 4 1947 Super Speeds. Two have smooth trays, two are creased.

I have 17 other '40's type Super Speeds including a '48 version in it's original cardboard box. They all have creased trays. But I'll bet a plain tray notched version will show up eventually.

Len

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Thank you Sir!