Fountain pen

Ink is pretty much the same dye and water; some have more colors (variety), some will be more saturated (darker) than others. All-in-all try several brands/colors and see what you like.

Above all DO NOT use calligraphy or india ink. These contain binders (usually shellac) & usually pigments (as opposed to dyes, even if they say fountain pen safe) and will gunk up your pen permanently.

whiteweed said:

Thanks guys, checked it all out and went with a couple of Hero to start with the 100 and 300 I think both will be good to learn and grow with. Just one other thing when I got into shaving DE I used "the blades are cheaper" do you think "the ink is cheaper" is going to work?

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It'll probably work about as well as "the blades are cheaper," which, in my experience means, not at all.

One difference is that with FPs, the high and luxury end is way more expensive. It's a lot easier to spend $300 on an FP (which gets you an excellent quality, non-rare FP (e.g., Pelikan m800). If you're spending that much on a razor, you're in rarified territory. This is less so for brushes.

Austin said:

Ron, I would purchase Private Reserve or Noodlers ink for your new pens. I think Todd sells these lines.

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The Noodlers is a very good choice for Asian pens, as it has very good flow that will help ensure that the finer nibs write smoothly.

Waterman is one of the better widely-available inks - all of my pens digest it with no issues.

Huy said:

I have 2 heroes and they are not bad for the price. You can also get the pilot 78g (also sold on isellpens). I think they're much better than the heroes and are only $12.

I agree 100% with the Pilot 78 recommendation - a heck of a lot of pen for the money and better than the inexpensive Chinese pens I've tried.

With inks I want to get every color, I think I have about 20 different inks right now. It's not saving me any money switching to FPs.

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RichGem said:

Ink is pretty much the same dye and water; some have more colors (variety), some will be more saturated (darker) than others. All-in-all try several brands/colors and see what you like.

Above all DO NOT use calligraphy or india ink. These contain binders (usually shellac) & usually pigments (as opposed to dyes, even if they say fountain pen safe) and will gunk up your pen permanently.

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The warning against calligraphy or india ink is valid.

While the key visual differences are colour and pigment strength, don't be fooled into thinking all inks are the same. The "stuff" that goes into an ink differs between manufacturers and makes a difference. One key difference between inks is viscosity/flow characteristics. For example I've found Sheaffer inks to be quite thin (admittedly its been years since I've used them) which means that a wider nib will lay down a very wet line and the ink tends to feather on all but better quality paper. Noodlers, while a free-flowing ink does not seem to flow as quickly or feather - its a great ink all around, but because it flows so well, it can really do wonders in a pen with a fine nib or where ink flow is an issue. Conversely, a slightly thicker ink (and we're talking very minor differences here) can help improve the performance of a pen that tends to lay down too wet a line.

In short, just like DE blades, there are some inks that work well in most pens (think Derby or IPs) for most people. But there are also situations when a specific ink will really make a pen with a balky nib or feed sing and then its a matter of trial and error - once you find the combination that works, that's what you stick with.

My $0.02.

Chris sparked one more comment & to just add to the above...

I personally prefer vintage inks... it just seems appropriate and if kept out of heat and light, bottled ink can last a good long while (I have several bottles of ink from the 30s and 40s that are just fine). One does need to watch out for sedimentation and evaporation, but all in all....

Anyhow, of note in that regard, is that vintage inks (and inks from then still being made like Shaeffer and Parker (most parker variants anyhow) are going to be thinner (colorwise)/less saturated then modern inks b/c that's the way it was back then. Modern made inks tend to be more saturated b/c that's what customers are looking for and modern dyes will allow for that sorta thing. The noteable excepetion to this would be Parker Superchrome which was heavily saturated and is not recommended for use these days b/c even then the superpigmentation (and general formula) was a clogging problem for some pens. Tho the bottles it came in (cobalt blue diamond shapes) were very cool looking.

I've tried several inks recently. The most uniformly good brand I've found is Waterman's. I also really like Visconti and Aurora. Private Reserve and Noodler's have some cool colors, but some seem a bit watery.

whiteweed said:

Thanks guys, checked it all out and went with a couple of Hero to start with the 100 and 300 I think both will be good to learn and grow with. Just one other thing when I got into shaving DE I used "the blades are cheaper" do you think "the ink is cheaper" is going to work?

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Todd is a reputable vendor. Just be aware that the Heros are servicable but if you're not happy with the way they write, they're not what I'd call a 'good' writing experience. Hero is among the better Chinese pen brands but Chinese pens in general are not great.

Pens are a heck of a lot more expensive than razors and unless you stick with a couple of pens similarly priced to the Heros, ain't no way that same argument is going to work. <g>

Huy said:

You can also get the pilot 78g (also sold on isellpens). I think they're much better than the heroes and are only $12.

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+1. While I do not recommend Chinese pens, Japanese pens, including the Pilots, are excellent.

By the way, what nib were you able to get for the Heros? They do run on the fine side.

Suzuki said:

The Noodlers is a very good choice for Asian pens, as it has very good flow that will help ensure that the finer nibs write smoothly.

Waterman is one of the better widely-available inks - all of my pens digest it with no issues.

The warning against calligraphy or india ink is valid.

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+1 on Watermans. It is about the most benign ink you can get.

+1 on the warning against calligraphy and india ink.

-1 on the blanket recomendation for Noodler's. I use many of the colors in many of my pens BUT know that the Baystate Blue (and the other colors in that family) do have some issues. A Hero is readily replacable at reasonable cost should you have problems so I'd not worry about it myself.

As others have indicated, different inks will work better or worse in different pens.

Go with the 78g if you cant get past the looks of the Safari. I'd recommend the Hero 100 if Heros weren't inconsistent

FYI to those watching this thread, speaking of Japanese pens, Pilot/Namiki Knights are quite nicely discounted at amazon right now (around $25). I just ordered one in burgundy. I have the blue in rollerball, and really like its heft and style, though the plating is prone to scratching.

Give me some info on the Parker 45. It seems easyer to find than the 51, YMMV. BTW I add a 78g to the order, thanks for the tip, I forget who that credit goes to. My love of pens has spiked

whiteweed said:

Give me some info on the Parker 45. It seems easyer to find than the 51

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Both the 45 and the 51 will be readily available from any decent vintage dealer. Aside from the internal differences, the 45 is a less expensive pen - a cartridge/converter filler, as opposed to a self-filler.

The 45 was still manufactured up until recently (may still be?) I picked up a few on closeout at Staples not too many years back.

If you go with a 51, tho, you'll want the (comparatively) newer aerometric style filler as opposed to the plunger style. Aeros last forever, plungers may need to be rebuilt in order to function properly.

As to inks, I'm a big fan of Diamine. Great, vintage like colors, excellent reputation. For reviews, see:

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39354

RichGem said:

If you go with a 51, tho, you'll want the (comparatively) newer aerometric style filler as opposed to the plunger style. Aeros last forever, plungers may need to be rebuilt in order to function properly.

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I have one of each, and I prefer the vacumatic (plunger). But then, I bought it from someone who re-works them. The Parker 51 is a worthy choice in either style.

norman931 said:

I have one of each, and I prefer the vacumatic (plunger). But then, I bought it from someone who re-works them. The Parker 51 is a worthy choice in either style.

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Do you 51 lovers have any preference between American and British versions? What about the early aeros vs. the Mark IIIs?

I'm not sure its fair to suggest a 51 as a possible option. I've never seen a 51 in good working order for the $30 price range that the OP indicated was what he was looking to spend. On the other hand, you can find lots of Parker 21 or Super 21 pens on e-bay (including NOS) that are well within this price range. While not as flashy or quite as smooth as the 51, the 21 (the Super in particular) are fantastic users - I picked up a NOS Super 21 for under $20 a few years ago and think its a great pen for the price.

Suzuki said:

I'm not sure its fair to suggest a 51 as a possible option. I've never seen a 51 in good working order for the $30 price range that the OP indicated was what he was looking to spend. On the other hand, you can find lots of Parker 21 or Super 21 pens on e-bay (including NOS) that are well within this price range. While not as flashy or quite as smooth as the 51, the 21 (the Super in particular) are fantastic users - I picked up a NOS Super 21 for under $20 a few years ago and think its a great pen for the price.

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The 21 is a great pen. I have a few, and they really surprise me. Inexpensive, good, solid writers. Not quite as nice as the 51s, but what do you expect for a fraction of the cost?

And for the record: If you manage to avoid FPAD, they can be cheaper than disposable pens and better for the environment. I know a few people who always lost disposable pens, but never lose their fountain pens. (Notice I said lose; theft is another matter...) Also, do you know what the half-life is on the plastic used in disposable pens? I don't either, but it can't be good.

In terms of service life, SWMBO recently got (unfortunately) her grandfather's Mont Blanc. It was his daily user, and is now her "at home" user.

I've read a couple of people do analysis of cost. But, beyond cost, there are the intangibles. I know I have a problem writing more than a paragraph with a ball-point because my hand cramps. I don't have that problem with fountain pens.

And finally, personally, the #1 reason to use a fountain pen: The look on someone's face when they ask, "Hey, can I use your pen for a second?" and you say, "No. Not really."

Hmmm. Maybe I am a jerk...

BTW, if you haven't used a fountain pen in public before, at some point people will ask about it. Expect it. Its coming.

My favorite story is that, once, I was talking to an older woman. I was writing with my 51 and she comments, "Oh, you're a fountain pen man!" We then talked about the nature of our disposable society. Conversation starters are good. Especially when you enjoy them for their own sake.

Cheech said:

BTW, if you haven't used a fountain pen in public before, at some point people will ask about it. Expect it. Its coming.

My favorite story is that, once, I was talking to an older woman. I was writing with my 51 and she comments, "Oh, you're a fountain pen man!" We then talked about the nature of our disposable society. Conversation starters are good. Especially when you enjoy them for their own sake.

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This is so true - I get comments all the time when I use one of my FPs in public - if you do run across another FP user, there's generally an immediate bond/discussion starter.

I also agree about FPs being easier to write with - with the exception of a couple of disposable pens with either liquid or gel ink, I can't write with anything but a FP for an extended period.

I have a bunch of FPs, including several higher end pens, while my favourites are my Pelikan 800, Lamy 200 and Waterman Carene, my humble Super 21 is often on my desk as its stiff, fine nib is great for margin notes.

Devil Doc said:

For about twice what you're willing to spend you can get a working Parker "51" which is 100 times the pen that you're looking at.

Doc.

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+1 on the Parker 51. I have about 20 of these pens, in various colors, nib sizes and cap styles and love them all. Having collected fountain pens for many years (bpth vintge and modern, but mostly vintage), I can definitely say that vintage is the way to go if you really want a pen to WRITE with, rather than as a piece of jewelry or a conversation piece. Back in the day (i.e., before ballpoints), pens were made as utilitarian objects, and you'll find that the vintage pens, properly restored, write better than anything you can find today. Vintage pens are lighter, easier to write with, and most have real gold nibs, some of which are fleible and can give your handwriting a distinctive character, unlike modern, stiff nibs which write like nails. The Parker 51 is in my opinion the best fountain pen ever made, and there are zillions of them still around for reasonable prices. Try this site for more info: www.parker51.com Also, look at www.pentrace.net, which has both a message board and a sales board. The best place to find vintage pens is at a pen show, if you are near an area where one is being held. Here is a link to the major shows held in the U.S. each year: http://home.netcom.com/~swirth/2000.htm One of the best and biggest shows, with both vintage and modern pens, is the Washington, D.C. show, held each August. Here is a link to the D.C. Pen Show web site: http://www.pencentral.com/ There are hundreds of dealers and colelctors at these shows, and you can see and try out thousands of pens before you buy, as well as ask questions, try out inks, etc. There are numerous modern pen dealers and companies present as well, selling new pens at deep discounts. For example, I once bought an Omas Arco fountain pen, brand new, which would have run $850 in a pen store at the mall, for $425 at a pen show. I typically see discounts of 35-40&#37; at pen shows off new pens and related merchandise.