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Honor in being a warrior

This tale is mostly true of honor among warriors during WWII.

http://www.snopes.com/military/charliebrown.asp

Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England. His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.

After flying the B-17 over an enemy airfield, a German pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.

Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane.

Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to, and slightly over, the North Sea towards England. He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe. When Franz landed he told the CO that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.

More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions.

They met in the USA at a 379th Bomber Group reunion, together with 25 people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day.

The third image is a painting of the incident. The snopes article was awesome in itself.
 
Wow, i really have mixed feelings about that. How many more missions did that B-17 crew go on to fly afterwards. and how many German women and children did their bombs kill on those subsequent missions? Did Franz ever consider that?
 
You don't have to love those you fight with nor hate those you fight against.

On Memorial Day I will be remembering all of those who gave their tomorrows so all of us could have our todays. "To all who gave some and especially those who gave all." Thank you one and all.
 
quite a few pilots displayed respect and chivalry for their foes,probably as a consequence of the shared kinship in the challenges of becoming a pilot.and as a part of the outlook of many pilots who saw themselves as a continuation of the knights of old.indeed many of the european pilots were of traditional military families,and had no personal animosity towards their enemies.
 
Wow, i really have mixed feelings about that. How many more missions did that B-17 crew go on to fly afterwards. and how many German women and children did their bombs kill on those subsequent missions? Did Franz ever consider that?

Good point! One must consider how many allied planes were shot down by Stigler or ground troops he strafed after the incident too. The man was honorable.

"I didn't have the heart to finish off those brave men," Stigler later said. "I flew beside them for a long time. They were trying desperately to get home and I was going to let them do it. I could not have shot at them. It would have been the same as shooting at a man in a parachute."
 
I hate to be a party pooper, but that story, while based on fact, has been greatly embellished. Try this clarification:

http://www.snopes.com/military/charliebrown.asp

Thanks for that, Tom, but the basics of the story seem to hold up. This reminds me of the Civil War reunions that were held at various battle sites, when veterans FROM BOTH SIDES came to have a friendly get-together despite the fact that they had once been shooting at each other.
 
Funny timing, this thread...

A friend of mine is a WWII vet and one of my favorite war stories of his was when he had a piece of shrapnel embedded in his hand. The Germans took him in, fixed him up and sent him on his way. What I like about stories like that is that it reminds both sides the other is still human.

Anyway, I was recently given the bulk of his WWII gear, a straight razor that was given to him by his father (circa 1913), a scuttle from 1898, and a bunch of ammunition. What meant the most to me was that I was told "at least it's going to someone who appreciates it".
 
Funny timing, this thread...

A friend of mine is a WWII vet and one of my favorite war stories of his was when he had a piece of shrapnel embedded in his hand. The Germans took him in, fixed him up and sent him on his way. What I like about stories like that is that it reminds both sides the other is still human.

Anyway, I was recently given the bulk of his WWII gear, a straight razor that was given to him by his father (circa 1913), a scuttle from 1898, and a bunch of ammunition. What meant the most to me was that I was told "at least it's going to someone who appreciates it".

+1

Congrats on the score. I'm assuming that it's safe to say that we'll never see that stuff on the BST:wink:
 
+1

Congrats on the score. I'm assuming that it's safe to say that we'll never see that stuff on the BST:wink:

The ammo maybe, since I don't have a gun to fire it and don't intend to find one but I don't know the rules regarding shipping that sort of thing. The rest is actually pretty usable so I'll probably take it when I travel.
 
I have a friend at work who was raised in London. His father sserved in the British army during WW II. He was involved in the Battle of Monte Cassino. He made it almost to the top of his hill, when he was cut down by a German machine gun nest. When he woke up, he was in a German field hospital. German soldiers had saved his life by stitching him up with boot laces. The German soldier nest to him had taken a British bayonet to the face, which was twisted and the rifle discharged. These two soldiers became friends.

After the war, Mike said his dad found that German soldier. For Christmas that year, the German and some of his unit traveled to London and met up with Mike's dad and his unit. They took turns visiting each other after that. When the German soldier finally died, Mike took his dad to Germany for the funeral. His dad laid his Service Cross he had been awarded on the casket and cried.

War without honor is barbarism.
 
Wow, i really have mixed feelings about that. How many more missions did that B-17 crew go on to fly afterwards. and how many German women and children did their bombs kill on those subsequent missions? Did Franz ever consider that?

I sure hope that those American survivors were able to return to destroy more of the Nazis' war making capability.
 
It's easy to wonder about these things not having been in situations that are similar. It's one thing to drop bombs on coordinates. It's another to look into someone's face as you extinguish their life. Most people have a very high resistance to killing others. Of course the story is embellished; its's very rare that they are not. The honor displayed by the German pilot stands.
 
It's easy to wonder about these things not having been in situations that are similar. It's one thing to drop bombs on coordinates. It's another to look into someone's face as you extinguish their life. Most people have a very high resistance to killing others. Of course the story is embellished; its's very rare that they are not. The honor displayed by the German pilot stands.

I agree completely!
 
It's easy to wonder about these things not having been in situations that are similar. It's one thing to drop bombs on coordinates. It's another to look into someone's face as you extinguish their life. Most people have a very high resistance to killing others. Of course the story is embellished; its's very rare that they are not. The honor displayed by the German pilot stands.

Absolutely!
 
Outstanding thread, the comments/opinions expressed are thoughtful, insightful, and demonstrate use of logic rather than emotion on a very controversial topic.

"It was not a Nazi Army; there were Nazis in the German Army."
 
Outstanding thread, the comments/opinions expressed are thoughtful, insightful, and demonstrate use of logic rather than emotion on a very controversial topic.

"It was not a Nazi Army; there were Nazis in the German Army."

From a distance of sixty-four years, it's a little easier for us to analyze that quote unemotionally. I don't think it's an either/or proposition, though. In the beginning, the Nazis would not have gotten very far politically without significant support from the armed services. And once the Nazis determined that German national policy would largely consist of aggressive war, the armed forces made that policy possible. That policy included sinking civilian ships, bombing civilian areas, and forcing masses of people into refugee status. All armies do that, unfortunately, but the German military in WWII also committed countless atrocities against civilians and soldiers. By 1945, most of their young soldiers had spent most of their thinking lives in a country dominated by Nazi propaganda. The bottom line for me is that, although I realize there were many decent people in the German (and Japanese) armed forces, I have no quarrel with anything the Allies did with the intention of ending the war as quickly as possible.
 
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