I meant within the first few hours after making it. For cold process soap, it takes a couple of weeks to cure. For hot process soap, it can only take a few hours.
With or without Potassium/Sodium Hydroxide
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I meant within the first few hours after making it. For cold process soap, it takes a couple of weeks to cure. For hot process soap, it can only take a few hours.
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Ok, it's fair to say that everyone here has at least done a bit of high school chemistry. Regardless of how many moles of this and that and levels of pH and what not or whether certian campanies sate what ingredients WERE used or if they state what the ingridients reacted to is another issue.
Here's another angle...certain creams state that they are for Sensitive Skin, presumably (please jump in anytime) these have chemical that are easier on the skin. Now, according to "Kyle's Post" the very outer layer of the hair folical is weakened by the slight alkalinity of the cream allowed the water to penetrate more deeply. So is the fact that a particular cream says for sensitive skin a negative as far as hair penetration goes? i.e. will it have a pH closer to 5.5 and not be capable of weakening the outer layer of the hair folical?
I'm starting to think that the reason why the Germans don't have Hydroxides writen on their ingredients list is maybe because there is none in the resulting product. Whereas other companies state there is because thats what they used during production. But in fact they are all just the same.
Here's another angle...certain creams state that they are for Sensitive Skin, presumably (please jump in anytime) these have chemical that are easier on the skin. Now, according to "Kyle's Post" the very outer layer of the hair folical is weakened by the slight alkalinity of the cream allowed the water to penetrate more deeply. So is the fact that a particular cream says for sensitive skin a negative as far as hair penetration goes? i.e. will it have a pH closer to 5.5 and not be capable of weakening the outer layer of the hair folical?
I'm starting to think that the reason why the Germans don't have Hydroxides writen on their ingredients list is maybe because there is none in the resulting product. Whereas other companies state there is because thats what they used during production. But in fact they are all just the same.
You started that particular line of discussion, not me. Don't shoot the messenger.
A valid question, but I fear it is impossible to say without testing the pH of the resulting lather as we don't know the amounts of each component in the product. You'd think the pH has been lowered, but there are other considerations such as product stability and lathering properties which might be affected too much, so that the overal pH is a compromise between what the skin would like and what the product simply must be. I don't have universal indicator paper at hand and so cannot test what little soaps and creams I have. (This is by far the easiest way of establishing the pH.) In addition, I don't know how long it takes for sensitive skin to react to midly alkaline solutions and foams. It's not like the foam in on the skin for for hours and hours, or that there are no products to restore the pH afterwards. And then I haven't even considered what is worse for skin: a too high pH, or the mechanical maltreatment by a sharp metal edge drawn across it.
Either way, it doesn't matter whether the OH- ions stem from KOH or NaOH or triethanolamine or the K- and Na-salts of the fatty acids making up the soap or sodium carbonate (which I found in Cella's products) or anything else---whether used in production processes and later removed, or just mentioned as a remainder, or whatever---to your skin only the amount matters. The fact that the tell-tale alkalis are or are not mentioned does not mean much in itself. Other ingredients can easily replace them in the pH-department, which is all KOH and NaOH do once you hold the product in your hands.
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Germans might not use hyrdoxides because as a population, they have skin which would be slightly acidic--adding something with such great basicity would throw off their skins pH and cause some crazy issues. But, if we go down this path, we bring biology into the discussion, along with evolution, ecology, and genetics. So...any thoughts?
I kid; that's too much for a thread about something as wonderfully "simple" as shaving cream. It should be noted that YOUR RESULTS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THAN EVERYONE ELSES. Let us know how those pH tests go--I myself am interested, but am too lazy to yank some pH strips from the stock room at school.
I kid; that's too much for a thread about something as wonderfully "simple" as shaving cream. It should be noted that YOUR RESULTS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THAN EVERYONE ELSES. Let us know how those pH tests go--I myself am interested, but am too lazy to yank some pH strips from the stock room at school.
It's added to raise the pH since coconut acid is a common ingredient. Of course, you need to trust the manufacturer to get it right - too much caustic soda and it would be nasty stuff to have on your face. Then again mixing hydrochloric acid and caustic soda in the right proportion gives common salt.
Gentlemen - may I say as one who knows absolutely bugger all about chemistry how much I am enjoying this thread (I speak without irony - I am really learning something here) - please continue!
I might eventually find out why my so looked-forward to TOBS Rose irritated me and what to avoid in the future.
Cordially, AvT.
I might eventually find out why my so looked-forward to TOBS Rose irritated me and what to avoid in the future.
Cordially, AvT.
Ah, a gentleman enjoying the provocations of chemistry. I was much like you when I first had my eye caught by chemistry. Since then, I have entered a polygamous relationship with chemistry, physics, biology, and medicine. I still find chemistry to be the greatest (just don't tell biology, it is a very sensitive science)
FYI:
Stearic/lauric/oleic/palmitic acid: Fatty acids (in other words, grease or oil)
Sodium hydroxide/potassium hydroxide: Alkaline ingredients to saponify soap
Sodium/Potassium Stearate/laurate/oleate/palmate: Soap- the stearic acid has reacted with the sodium hydroxide to make sodium stearate (sodium salt of a fatty acid) and glycerine.
Maybe the reason they're shown on the ingredient list is because they're listing the ingredients, not the finished product, i.e. they could have listed "Potassium Laurate", but instead they list potassium hydroxide and coconut oil / lauric acid.
Stearic/lauric/oleic/palmitic acid: Fatty acids (in other words, grease or oil)
Sodium hydroxide/potassium hydroxide: Alkaline ingredients to saponify soap
Sodium/Potassium Stearate/laurate/oleate/palmate: Soap- the stearic acid has reacted with the sodium hydroxide to make sodium stearate (sodium salt of a fatty acid) and glycerine.
Maybe the reason they're shown on the ingredient list is because they're listing the ingredients, not the finished product, i.e. they could have listed "Potassium Laurate", but instead they list potassium hydroxide and coconut oil / lauric acid.
