Fine honing preference?

[moses]

I'm wondering what people prefer for fine honing/edge maintenance?

Lets assume a Norton 4/8 or something similar first.

What are preferences/suggestions for maintaining a sharp edge/finishing beyond the 8k?

Types of stones and prices?

Pasted strops?

etc.?

-Mo

[Dinder1]

Good question, I would like to be able to do all of my own straight razor maintenance as well.
Cheers, DJ.

[joel]

My personal favorite - Shapton 30K... but it'll run you about $570- after shipping.

There is a Chinese 12K hone for about $30, and numerous other options out there. I spent a considerable amount of money on different hones recently, and I will be reviewing them all - so hopefully this will help.

For what it is worth - I would not recommend honing... at all - unless you plan on buying ebay specials. A pasted strop from tony with 3, 1, .5 and .25 micron diamond paste should be all that is needed to maintain your straights... honing is both expensive (investing in the equipment) and a pain (time investment) and with the use of diamond pastes - is not necessary for the most. Some guys just love honing and dinking around with things though... personally I am not one of 'em and sold my norton 4/8K - and only recently purchased another (and a bunch of other hones) to hone up and sell ebay razors to new straight razor shavers on the board. As a side note - I have about 5 or 6 more on the way, so hopefully I'll have several to offer members shortly

[EL Alamein]

I find that a fine Belgian Coticule (yellow) works very well for my purposes. I have a small collection of them and I must say that good ones can still be had. There are a few vendors still around but one of the best stones I have received was from this outfit:

http://www.shaving-and-razor-shop.com/NL/index-e.htm

Their 100 X 40 is a nice size to work with.

There are other worthy hones to chose from that I hope others here will chime in with. Hope that helps.

Chris

[LX_Emergency]

I enjoy the coticule as well. But I understand they're pretty pricey. I got mine for a low price however.

[fuerein]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I was wondering is anyone knew what types of hones/stones you need for normal kitchen/pocket knives. For instance would the Norton 1/4/8K stones still be appropriate? Also, would the differences in honing styles require seperate hones for razors and knives (maybe because of wear patterns on the stones?

Again sorry for the off topic nature.

[edrose]

Hello everybody, this is my first post here.
The Spyderco Ultrafine Bench Stone works well for me.
BTW, one of my razors for the admission

[ouch]

I tried out the Shapton 30K (purple), and although it's a great stone, it won't make all that much of a difference over the 12 or 15K, for knives, at least. I'm not sure if the grit size is even as fine as the .25 paste.

[LX_Emergency]

Looks like a nice blade Edrose.

[Suzuki]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I was wondering is anyone knew what types of hones/stones you need for normal kitchen/pocket knives. For instance would the Norton 1/4/8K stones still be appropriate? Also, would the differences in honing styles require seperate hones for razors and knives (maybe because of wear patterns on the stones?

Again sorry for the off topic nature.

A 1000 is all you really need for a general purpose kitchen knife - sharp, good tooth (something you don't want for a razor!), easy to maintain, etc. You can go to a 4000 for more specialized knives (i.e., sushi or for very fine work).

With a pocket knife 1000 is all you really need, but many enthusiasts go higher. Knives for specialized applications may benefit from higher grit stones - i.e., skinning knives, etc.

Woodworking tools (plane blades, chisels, carving tools) get the full monty and get similar treatment to straight razors - high grit stones, honing compounds, stropping, etc. - depending on use.

[ouch]

I'll agree with suzuki that the single most indispensable stone for kitchen knives is the 1K. It's used to bring up the burr (don't try that with your razors, kiddies!) and establishes the bevel and edge. Anything finer than that is just for further refining of the edge, which is not inconsequential.
As with razors, once you get a good initial edge, you can go a long time just touching things up with a polish stone.

[Suzuki]

I have just gotten back into straights after having played with them several years ago.

I used a 1k/4k Japanese waterstone, microgrit sandpaper and a very basic leather strop - my results were ok at best.

I have recently purchased a Norton 4k/8k and it gives much better results (I will go to my Norton 1k if a razor is in really bad shape, but am very careful as its very quick cutting).

Many people like the Belgian coticules (the blue is about 4k and yellow is about 8k). Some say they are slower cutting than the Norton, other say the edge feels different - I can't say one way or the other, but they are highly regarded.

Here is a US supplier - very reasonable pricing and he's gotten favourable press at SRP:

http://www.theperfectedge.com/belgian.shtml

Tony at The Well Shaved Gentleman is going to be carrying Thuringer stones (supposedly similar properties to the Belgian stones) in the near future - these will likely be less expensive than the Belgian stones.

Some people like old barber's hones - they tend to be smaller and vary widely in size, quality and properties (grit, cutting speed, etc.) and there are people other than me who are much better qualified to debate the differences between the various brands of barber's hones.

I agree with what Joel said about using a pasted strop - its the same advice I've gotten from several people - its much easier to strop than hone and a 4-sided strop with 3, 1, .5, .25 micron paste will allow you to keep a razor in good shape for a long time before you need to go back to the hone to refresh the edge and will likely be all you need to sharpen your razor after the 8k hone.

If you want to try your hand at honing, the Norton 4k/8k seems to be the most popular, but a good 4k/8k Japanese water stone will also work just fine if you don't want to blow $70 on the Norton - sometimes you can find them on sale, but the higher grit stones aren't cheap.

If you plan on sharpening a lot of razors, you will likely want to buy some of the higher grit hones - a 12k is probably a good next step after the 8k. A less expensive option is to use micro mesh sandpaper - you can get it in grits as high as 12000 (all you need to do is glue them (spray adhesive) to a flat surface (plexiglass, glass, or planed wood) and away you go) for much less than a stone - but they obviously don't last as long.

One thing that people often don't mention is the need to lap your stones - before using them for the first time and periodically thereafter - lapping makes the top of the stone flat and really helps to get optimal results. While most stones are pretty flat out of the box, there can be high/low spots that will negatively affect performance - especially when sharpening something like a razor.

Finally, its nice to have a wide stone, as you don't have to worry about following an "X" pattern.

Hope this helps.

[moses]

Many people like the Belgian coticules (the blue is about 4k and yellow is about 8k). Some say they are slower cutting than the Norton, other say the edge feels different - I can't say one way or the other, but they are highly regarded.

I am curious about this. I noticed that Lynn suggests the coticule after the Norton 8k. Also, El mentioned that it was his preference. But if it is also 8k, why is it not redundant? Is it because the stone is softer, somehow giving a more polishing, less cutting effect? Or perhaps because it is used with a slurry?

-Mo

[Suzuki]

I am curious about this. I noticed that Lynn suggests the coticule after the Norton 8k. Also, El mentioned that it was his preference. But if it is also 8k, why is it not redundant? Is it because the stone is softer, somehow giving a more polishing, less cutting effect? Or perhaps because it is used with a slurry?

-Mo

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea - I've heard (but don't have any first-hand experience) that the Belgian stones are slower cutting - this may give a different finish to the edge - even if they are approximately the same grit.

But this is just conjecture - I'm sure there are others who are in a much better position to debate how the edge a coticule gives differs from that created by a synthetic stone.

[ouch]

There's a lot of mythology involved with stones. I've seen some very plain looking natural stones that were almost three thousand dollars. Oofah.

[Suzuki]

There's a lot of mythology involved with stones. I've seen some very plain looking natural stones that were almost three thousand dollars. Oofah.

I've done a lot of research on the whole hone thing - and agree that there's as much art as science involved.

Like I said, I went with the 4k/8k Norton and a 4-sided strop - however, I'm sure a Belgian or Thuringer will eventually make its way into the workshop.

[moses]

For some reason I'm kinda tempted by the little swaty hones, too.... They are just so cheap on ebay, and kinda cool in the same way straights are....

-Mo

[mparker762]

Grit isn't everything. All things being equal, finer grit hones deliver a sharper edge. But all things being equal, slower-cutting hones produce a sharper edge than faster hones (this is one reason it's important to use as little pressure as possible when honing a razor).

You can get great edges from fast-cutting 90,000 grit diamond paste. Or the slow-cutting 12k coticules.

I'm partial to the the translucent arkansas hone. Technically it's only about 2k grit, but it's so slow cutting that it delivers an edge more like a 5k waterstone, and better than that once the grains have rounded off a bit. And if you use lather or oil instead of water it delivers an edge noticeably better than an 8k waterstone - I use mine after the 8k side of the norton. And I've got a barber hone that's probably around 8k that produces a better edge than my 15k shapton. And I get a better edge from my 11k boron carbide paddle than my 16k diamond paddle, even though it takes twice as many laps.

You get the idea.

[Suzuki]

For some reason I'm kinda tempted by the little swaty hones, too.... They are just so cheap on ebay, and kinda cool in the same way straights are....

-Mo

I have a barber's hone - not sure what brand - I may play with it some more, but find the wider hones much easier to use.

I agree they are cool and very old school.

[JohnP]

I have a lot of hones, but have not really delved too deeply into pasted strops (I've tried green chrome oxide paste, and jeweler's rouge). I've got several Belgians (1 blue, 2 newer yellow, and one old yellow coticule) lots of barber hones and had a Norton.
Finishing hones are a personal thing. An Itsapeech barber hone, especially if used in conjunction with lather, gives me an astonishingly easy edge, generally hanging hair sharp right off the hone. But not always. I am also fond of an Austrian Swaty I have, as well as a few other hones that seem to do well, either as fine finishing hones or general purpose.
I also have a Spyderco UltraFine that (apparently) I bought at great discount, which does pretty well (convenient in that no water is needed...)
Did you have a specific hone in mind? If I've tried it I'll try my best to give my opinion of it, otherwise there are so many hones out there that it's nearly impossible to make an accurate assessment of what is best or best for you, etc.
John P.