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X-Patter and Uneven Bevel

Many guys like narrower hones because it forces them to use an x-pattern. How do you maintain an even bevel though? The heel is on the hone the least amount of time. It's not going to have a bevel as wide as the rest of the blade.
 
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I've wondered the same thing. One answer I read is that the way the razor is held puts a little more pressure on the heel naturally, which compensates for its shorter time on the hone.
 
excuse the cruddy drawing.

The red thing is the hone, the darker red shows the size of a thin hone as a proportion of a big one.
blue line shows the travel of the heel on the hone.

if youre using the thin hone or the big one, the blue line is the same length. so wouldnt there be no difference?
 
I'd like to clarify my previous post:

The question whose answer I repeated above wasn't about thin vs. thick hones per se. Instead, it was about doing an X-pattern vs. not doing one.


Edit: I think it's also what Telly is asking here, though, right? It's not about an X-pattern on a thin hone vs. an X-pattern on a thicker hone; it's that a thin hone forces one to do an X-pattern, while a thick-enough hone doesn't. So it's X-pattern vs. no X-pattern (I think).
 
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I'd like to clarify my previous post:

The question whose answer I repeated above wasn't about thin vs. thick hones per se. Instead, it was about doing an X-pattern vs. not doing one.


Edit: I think it's also what Telly is asking here, though, right? It's not about an X-pattern on a thin hone vs. an X-pattern on a thicker hone, it's that a thin hone forces one to do an X-pattern, while a thick-enough hone doesn't. So it's X-pattern vs. no X-pattern (I think).

That is my understanding of the question presented. ....wow...I need summer break badly...:001_rolle
 
excuse the cruddy drawing.

The red thing is the hone, the darker red shows the size of a thin hone as a proportion of a big one.
blue line shows the travel of the heel on the hone.

if youre using the thin hone or the big one, the blue line is the same length. so wouldnt there be no difference?

I'm not referring to the length of travel. I'm referring to the different time spent on the hone for different sections of the blade. When you look at your drawing, the heel is on the hone the least amount of time. The rest of the blade spends considerably more time on the blade, especially the toe.

I would think these differences makes for an uneven bevel.

I'd like to clarify my previous post:

The question whose answer I repeated above wasn't about thin vs. thick hones per se. Instead, it was about doing an X-pattern vs. not doing one.


Edit: I think it's also what Telly is asking here, though, right? It's not about an X-pattern on a thin hone vs. an X-pattern on a thicker hone; it's that a thin hone forces one to do an X-pattern, while a thick-enough hone doesn't. So it's X-pattern vs. no X-pattern (I think).

That's partially correct. My question refers to when you have a narrow hone and you have to use an X-pattern. How do you do it without getting an uneven bevel?
 
Your all making something that is really very simple more complicated than it is.

Unless you hone the same razor over and over and over again every couple of days normal honing meaning touchups will not cause problems. Maybe after 20 years you might start to see some differences but as you continue to hone and if you start to see differences you just adjust your pressure in the problem areas.
 
Your all making something that is really very simple more complicated than it is.

Unless you hone the same razor over and over and over again every couple of days normal honing meaning touchups will not cause problems. Maybe after 20 years you might start to see some differences but as you continue to hone and if you start to see differences you just adjust your pressure in the problem areas.

Adding to what big said, we tell you to hone with light pressure for a reason.

As I alluded to in my response to chess1, I'm referring to the angle (or tilt) of the razor when you do an X-pattern pass. Until now, I didn't notice that I used a larger angle when I honed towards my body than when I honed away from my body. As a result, one side of the blade had more contact with the hone, which in turn meant one side would always have a wider bevel than the other.

Pressure and touch up passes are irrelevant in this discussion. Since I started this when I set the bevel on a low grit stone, the bevel was uneven long before it was time to make touch up passes.
 
I have often wondered about the "Should I use an X-stroke?" question. According to my calculations, an X-stroke should lead to uneven honing, but many, many honemeisters and experienced honers swear by it. AND I have heard that the X-stroke is even taught in old barber manuals.
Sigh...
The kicker is that I can sharpen a razor just fine on a 3" hone using a heel-leading stroke, but have recently been trying to learn the X-stroke (the right way, I keep telling myself), but can't get it to work for me. So should I even bother spending the time to learn it?!

I also posted a poll about this on SRP:
What stroke do you use on a wider hone?
The weird thing was that 23 people voted for NOT using the X-stroke on wider hones, but not one of them wanted to explain why they did so.
 
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You pull the razor for a smoother stroke. You can't pull the razor horizontally, you can only pull it downward. A pulling stroke also creates a smoother surface on the bevel. When you pull the razor downward the bevel gets supported against the friction of the hone by the adjacent bevel, thus it doesn't break as easily. You can get a slightly sharper edge.

When your updating, your not trying to remove a lot metal. Your just trying to create a super smooth bevel and only remove a touch of metal. Its a much slower process, but that might be part of the point.

When you want to remove steel equally you can push the razor down the hone. This works great since a smooth stroke isn't too important at this point. So for equal metal removal you can go sideways on the entire hone. No x pattern needed at all. This is one reason a "honemiester" qualifies "bevel creation" in a whole different light than "honing".
 
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