Belgian Blue

**TstebinsB** · 04-23-2009, 05:21 PM

I'm trying to hone a Friodur and I'm not making any headway. The Belgian blue is so slow. I don't know how people use this thing.

**professorchaos** · 04-24-2009, 05:36 AM

I may know a thing or two about that stone, if you don't mind a recommendation: Set the bevel on something else! Otherwise you could be there for days, Friodurs are so hard.

I got the best results out of it by starting with a thick slurry. After about 20-40 laps, the slurry should begin to get too thick. Add a little water to thin it. Another 20-40 laps and rinse all the slurry off and finish with another 10-20 laps. Check the edge. Using this method, most razors took about 70 laps to remove most scratches from the prior hone(s). (By the time I had to hone a Friodur, I had moved onto other hones.)

**chess1** · 04-24-2009, 05:37 AM

You will get no where buy using just belgian Blue.
do you have anything else (hones)
or just experiment?
if this is just experiment ( i have done it)
was testing Barts progression on belgian .
use slurry with coticule side first will sharp faster to compare to blue side.
after setting bevel ( i must say you shouldn't have any chips in this blade if you do sorry it is going to be a PITA TO TAKE IT OUT WITH coticule days i mean it)
after setting bevel then go back to belgian blue with slurry .you suppose to get sharper edge. then go to back coticule again without slurry.

i did this progression in pretty good shape blade edge was without any chips - i think it was bengal.
i did get the edge sharp enough to shave but it wasn't the best edge i could get from my other stones.
i spend 45 minutes and i choose this only i wanted test belgian coticule .I was using natural combo.
hope this helps.

**TstebinsB** · 04-24-2009, 06:26 AM

I'm doing an experiment to test the efficacy of a Belgian blue, a yellow coticule, and a Thuringian on a stainless steel razor. On the German forums, it's not recommended to go higher than a Thurigian on stainless steel.

**professorchaos** · 04-24-2009, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by TstebinsB

I'm doing an experiment to test the efficacy of a Belgian blue, a yellow coticule, and a Thuringian on a stainless steel razor. On the German forums, it's not recommended to go higher than a Thurigian on stainless steel.

Any idea why it isn't recommended to go higher than the Thurigian on stainless?

**TstebinsB** · 04-24-2009, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

Any idea why it isn't recommended to go higher than the Thurigian on stainless?

The premise is that Friodur steel isn't hard steel as much as it is tough steel. By being ice-tempered, it makes up for the steel actually being soft. Since it's soft, you don't need as many passes as with other razors. If you hone at too high a grit or make too many passes, the blade will not keep an edge and will microchip. From my personal experience, I have found this to be true. Look at this thread and start at post #23.

I have attained great edges on Friodurs with other stones but I'm trying to get the same with the current setup.

**professorchaos** · 04-24-2009, 07:42 AM

A very interesting discussion, one which goes a long way to explaining what I experienced honing one of my two Friodurs. The first was honed by Robert Williams after he rescaled it. It took and still has a wonderful edge. My second was a monster 8/8, unhoned. After months of trying to get it right with Belgian Blue, Coticule and Thuringian I nearly gave up on it. Instead, in a fit of frustration, I broke out some Japanese artificial hones. Using a loupe to observe their action on the edge, I managed to put a nice edge on the blade, albeit not quite so nice as Mr. Williams did with the other one.

So what I took to be an under-honed razor - based exclusively the mistaken reputation Friodurs have for being quite hard - was actually a razor with microchips.

What tests are you using to gauge progress?

**TstebinsB** · 04-24-2009, 09:57 AM

The only techniques I use to gauge progress are drawing a line at the edge of the blade, the TPT test, and performing a shave test on my arm at varying times during the honing process.

**chess1** · 04-24-2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by TstebinsB

On the German forums, it's not recommended to go higher than a Thurigian on stainless steel.

That is correct . i agree with it. what happens as much as fine you go all of a sudden you see in some parts of the blade edge start to melt. gets very shiny.
You have to go back and do everything all over.
if you were doing experiment then that is ok go head play with coticule and if you get great shave out of belgian (without using chr02 etc please pm me)
.Good luck

**professorchaos** · 04-25-2009, 02:35 PM

Telly - I had another conversation yesterday about honing stainless steel which essentially seconded your description of it. So I'd love to hear about your progress with it on the Belgian Blue.

**TstebinsB** · 04-25-2009, 02:46 PM

I was prepared to shave with the razor today and I forgot. I used another razor. Terrible. I'll try it tomorrow.

Some early points
I hone all my stainless steel razors with three layers of tape.

The Coticule is very hard and slow. It's more of a polishing stone. You really have to build a thick slurry to get the abrasive qualities working. Due to the hardness though, using water only makes the stone a wonderful polishing stone. I think someone who uses a Norton or DMT would be served with a Coticule like this because it'll really remove scratches.

The Blue is even slower but can generate a thick slurry, which drastically speeds up the honing. I used moderate pressure to set the bevel. Light pressure would've taken months.

**twoods** · 04-25-2009, 03:23 PM

Hey,

Why do you use 3 layers of tape on all your razors? I have a Dovo SS 41.

I honed mine using only one layer..

**TstebinsB** · 04-25-2009, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by twoods

Hey,

Why do you use 3 layers of tape on all your razors? I have a Dovo SS 41.

I honed mine using only one layer..

On the German forums, it was calculated that 18 degrees was the best angle for the Friodur razors. That's about four layers of tape. I don't use four though - I use three. Since Friodurs are overwhelmingly the bulk of my SS razors, I just do it with all of them.

**twoods** · 04-25-2009, 07:13 PM

interesting...I wonder if that applies to my Dovo SS 41.

**TstebinsB** · 04-26-2009, 08:08 PM

The first shave was terrible. By trying to set the bevel on the Blue and mostly failing, I'm hindering the affect of the Coticule and Thuringian. Back to the drawing board...

**twoods** · 04-27-2009, 05:55 AM

Personally I set the bevel on my DMT 1200 then move to the belgian blue followed by a coticule and some cr0.

**professorchaos** · 04-27-2009, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by TstebinsB

The first shave was terrible. By trying to set the bevel on the Blue and mostly failing, I'm hindering the affect of the Coticule and Thuringian. Back to the drawing board...

I had the same troubles and I wonder - could be very wrong here - if the difficulties are caused by how garnet cuts in combination with stainless' greater ductility (in comparison to high carbon). Perhaps the combination of the two factors causes a more of a smear (ductile fracture) than a clean cut? If so, it might account for the success twoods had setting the bevel with a DMT and polishing out those scratch marks with the Blue.

**TstebinsB** · 04-27-2009, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

I had the same troubles and I wonder - could be very wrong here - if the difficulties are caused by how garnet cuts in combination with stainless' greater ductility (in comparison to high carbon). Perhaps the combination of the two factors causes a more of a smear (ductile fracture) than a clean cut? If so, it might account for the success twoods had setting the bevel with a DMT and polishing out those scratch marks with the Blue.

Usually, I set the bevel on a DMT and have had success. I'm trying to do it with these three stones and it's very difficult. I'm going to give it another go but it's frustrating.

**professorchaos** · 04-27-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by TstebinsB

Usually, I set the bevel on a DMT and have had success. I'm trying to do it with these three stones and it's very difficult. I'm going to give it another go but it's frustrating.

I hear you, nothing like spending hours honing a razor only to get a crap-tacular shave out of it. Once you get fed up, will you set the bevel on the DMT and then use this progression?

**TstebinsB** · 04-27-2009, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

I hear you, nothing like spending hours honing a razor only to get a crap-tacular shave out of it. Once you get fed up, will you set the bevel on the DMT and then use this progression?

Yes. After I set the bevel on a DMT, I usually go to Japanese stones.

I have to decide on a progression:
Coticule w/slurry
Blue w/slurry
Blue w/water
Coticule w/water
Thuringian w/water

Blue w/slurry
Blue w/water
Coticule w/slurry
Coticule w/water
Thuringian w/water