Need help on planning my hone setup.

**Petesurfer** · 04-22-2009, 05:43 PM

Hello,

I'm a complete newbie to straight shaving. I've already read the interactive guide and a ton of posts on hones and I still need some help.

If I'm only going to own pre-honed razors and new razors (bought straight from the shop) would the following setup be enough?
I'm not interested in restoring old razors (I would leave that to the pro's) I just don't want to depend on anyone for maintenance.

-DMT 8K
-Chinese 12K

My doubts are:
1) Do any of these two stones need to be lapped, and if so, what additional stones or materials do I need?

2) Would I also need a paddled strop (or a leather strop)?

3) How could I complete this setup so I would never need to send the razor to get it honed. I'm from Spain and I don't know of any local respectable Honemeisters in my country, so I would like to avoid the costs (and time) of sending the razor to a foreign country to get it honed, and avoid depending on other people (which for me is one of the great pro's about straight shaving)

PS:I tend to pay a lot of attention to Joel's posts, but I got a bit confused about the Chinese 12K. In one post he said it's a good choice and in another he said that he would never buy it again, (is the Chinese 12K decieving?)

Thank you very much!

**jadam318** · 04-22-2009, 09:00 PM

I'm new to honing myself, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt.

I think DMT's don't need to be honed. (Someone jump in and correct me if I am wrong. I don't have one of those yet.)

The Chinese 12k can be lapped with sand paper (320 grit or so) on a hard flat surface such as a granite tile or the sort. I just got one of these in the mail myself, but I have not lapped it yet.

Provided you don't drop your razor and chip it or something, you should be okay with that hone set-up (according to what I've learned from reading/asking questions).

People say you can shave off of something as coarse as 8k, but its not very comfortable. Whether or not you need something finer than 12k seems to be personal preference. My plan is to try shaving off of 12k to see how I like it before I jump into pasted strops.

I'm no expert, but I have just finished the process of picking hones for myself. The stuff is fresh on my mind. I'm sure some more experience will chime in soon and either reaffirm my comments or correct them. I hope I helped.

**jadam318** · 04-22-2009, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Petesurfer

2) Would I also need a paddled strop (or a leather strop)?

I just noticed this as I read over everything a second time. You should use a strop every time you use your straight...just leather/linen (the linen isn't necessary every time, but it will prolong the time between visits to the hone). Most people seem to use pasted strops as a continuation of the honing process.

You may already know this, I just want to be sure I'm not leading you astray by assuming you know things.

**mdunn** · 04-22-2009, 09:12 PM

yeah, you need to strop every time.

if youre only touching up shave ready straights that have slowly dulled from regular shaving (so no accidental dings on the tap etc) then you really only need the chinese 12k

**Petesurfer** · 04-23-2009, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by jadam318

I just noticed this as I read over everything a second time. You should use a strop every time you use your straight...just leather/linen (the linen isn't necessary every time, but it will prolong the time between visits to the hone). Most people seem to use pasted strops as a continuation of the honing process.

You may already know this, I just want to be sure I'm not leading you astray by assuming you know things.

Thank you, I actually wasn't sure about that , so you you've cleared that doubt.
By the way, are there any alternatives to sandpaper for lapping the Chinese 12K?

**mdunn** · 04-23-2009, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Petesurfer

Thank you, I actually wasn't sure about that , so you you've cleared that doubt.
By the way, are there any alternatives to sandpaper for lapping the Chinese 12K?

you can use a DMT plate, but sandpaper is by far the cheapest. and if youre not going to need to do a lot of lapping, a dmt plate is overkill IMHO

**professorchaos** · 04-23-2009, 06:06 AM

Before spending money on hones, I'd recommend finding out what you like in an edge. Now I am something of a freak, but I think there are better edges to be had than those produced by some very popular hones. Of course, that knowledge was gained at some cost - I spent quite a bit of money on a variety of stones.

So if I were you, I'd contact a few honemeisters to see what they use. Once you find two or three who do things differently, send them razors to be honed. You might find yourself surprised at how different an edge can feel when finished on different rocks.

**jadam318** · 04-23-2009, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by mdunn

you can use a DMT plate, but sandpaper is by far the cheapest. and if youre not going to need to do a lot of lapping, a dmt plate is overkill IMHO

+1 - The way I understand it, the Chinese 12k is pretty hard. If you are only using it once in a while to hone up your shaver, I wouldn't drop the coin on a DMT plate to lap it with. I've even heard some people mention that the Chinese 12k can wear out some lapping plates. I doubt you'd have much trouble with the DMT, but it is worth mentioning.

**Petesurfer** · 04-23-2009, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

Before spending money on hones, I'd recommend finding out what you like in an edge. Now I am something of a freak, but I think there are better edges to be had than those produced by some very popular hones. Of course, that knowledge was gained at some cost - I spent quite a bit of money on a variety of stones.

So if I were you, I'd contact a few honemeisters to see what they use. Once you find two or three who do things differently, send them razors to be honed. You might find yourself surprised at how different an edge can feel when finished on different rocks.

Wow! That even confuses me even more! The problem with that is that if I asked honemeisters, as honing is their hobby/profession, they would each one recommend me the purchase of ten stones. It's like asking a professional golf player about clubs, he probably has 5 completely different sets of golf clubs, when you can play at a very good level using always the same bag. I'm not looking for honing as a hobby, I just wan't the most functional, independent and fastest setup possible (I don't have enough time to spend it lapping a stone for hours). In exchange for fastness, I am willing to spend money on hones/stones,etc..

**SavantStrike** · 04-23-2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Petesurfer

Wow! That even confuses me even more! The problem with that is that if I asked honemeisters, as honing is their hobby/profession, they would each one recommend me the purchase of ten stones. It's like asking a professional golf player about clubs, he probably has 5 completely different sets of golf clubs, when you can play at a very good level using always the same bag. I'm not looking for honing as a hobby, I just wan't the most functional, independent and fastest setup possible (I don't have enough time to spend it lapping a stone for hours). In exchange for fastness, I am willing to spend money on hones/stones,etc..

In that case, I can give you some advice as a fellow honing newbie. I just got my hones (and they just came!!!!), so the experience is still fresh in my mind. I can't tell you if one hone is better than another, and will leave that up to the pros, but I can tell you if you wanted to get that 12k, you would save a few hours of time buying a lapping plate for it. That said, sometimes the 12k comes really flat and not a ton of time is needed even with sandpaper. Mine came flat, really flat, but I've got a D8X to use on it anyways so I can remove chips from bad blades one of these days, and because my Norton 8k can benefit from it.

If you decide on a 12k, maybe wait and see how the one you got turns out. If you can get it lapped with sandpaper, great. if you can't then order something to lap it. That DMT 8k doesn't need to be lapped, but beyond that I can't really advise you about it. Personally I didn't want an ultra rapid 8k, but if that's what you want, I hear the DMT fits the bill.

**professorchaos** · 04-23-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Petesurfer

Wow! That even confuses me even more! The problem with that is that if I asked honemeisters, as honing is their hobby/profession, they would each one recommend me the purchase of ten stones. It's like asking a professional golf player about clubs, he probably has 5 completely different sets of golf clubs, when you can play at a very good level using always the same bag. I'm not looking for honing as a hobby, I just wan't the most functional, independent and fastest setup possible (I don't have enough time to spend it lapping a stone for hours). In exchange for fastness, I am willing to spend money on hones/stones,etc..

If quickly getting a hone progression you like is your objective, I'd suggest that a methodical approach to discovering that set up is the speediest way to ensure success.

Ask 10 different people what sort edge they like on a straight and most of them will give you a similar answer. Most of the rest would give you another answer. The remainder, including me, would tell you something very different. For instance, many might prefer the edge produced by a Coticule and/or Escher. Others that of a Chinese 12K followed by a few laps on the CrOx. Me? I'd tell you Japanese hones. Although I am in no way a honemeister, if you were to ask me to hone a straight, I'd hone it the exact same way I'd hone a blade for myself, with Japanese stones. (I do own a few other hones, but I don't use them.)

So yes, you would get a variety of responses. Which is exactly what you want. If you get three guys honing on the same or similar progression, you learn nothing except for the type of edge that progression produces. Yet if you get three guys honing on three markedly different set ups, you end up with three different edges. All shave ready, all with different feel. And if among those three there is one you really like, you can pursue getting a similar progression. Otherwise you may find yourself purchasing hones until, through trial and error, you happen to arrive at a combination you like.

**Chimensch** · 04-23-2009, 06:29 PM

I've been shaving with a straight razor for 29 years. For the first 28, all I had was a strop and a barber hone (Swaty Three Line). A year ago, I found the Internet forums and went off on a binge of experimentation, including buying lots of hones, a paddle strop and pastes, all of which turned out to be unnecessary. Forget everything you've read and just buy a coticule. It's easier to lap with abrasive paper and easy to use and it'll give you a great edge for shaving. As for a honemesister in Spain, if you go looking over at SRP, you'll find a couple.