Witch hazel (or pseudo-witch hazel
) and an aftershave splash would be redundant, in my opinion. An aftershave balm or moisturizer after the witch hazel dries would be better (again, IMHO).Witch Hazel Question
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Witch hazel (or pseudo-witch hazel
) and an aftershave splash would be redundant, in my opinion. An aftershave balm or moisturizer after the witch hazel dries would be better (again, IMHO).Witch hazel (or pseudo-witch hazel
That's how I use it as well
Well I bought some Dicken's witch hazel at wal-mart and I'm not very impressed. It doesn't have enough alcohol in it to really sanitize my face like aqua velva does in my opinion. Also, it doesn't tighten up my pores like the thayers does. I'm thinking about making a custom blend of thayers with aloe, dickens, and some kind of grain alcohol, maybe gin. Has anyone tried anything like that?
Lol!!!!
It's been driving me crazy. I couldn't think of what Superhazel reminded me of. That's it. That is the scent.
Thanks!
Gentlemen,
I found the discussion on witch hazel most illuminating. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have used Thayers Medicated Superhazel with aloe vera for quite some time. According to the label, the alcohol content is 20 percent. After the shave, I rise my face with warm water, dry it, and give it a splash of witch haze. By the time I have cleaned up, the witch hazel is nice and dry. Then I rise with cold water, apply balm and follow with aftershave. It seems to work well for me.
Life is always a touch sweeter after a good shave.
Obelit
I found the discussion on witch hazel most illuminating. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have used Thayers Medicated Superhazel with aloe vera for quite some time. According to the label, the alcohol content is 20 percent. After the shave, I rise my face with warm water, dry it, and give it a splash of witch haze. By the time I have cleaned up, the witch hazel is nice and dry. Then I rise with cold water, apply balm and follow with aftershave. It seems to work well for me.
Life is always a touch sweeter after a good shave.
Obelit
I've recently considered mixing Dickinson's WH and Fruit of the Earth Aloe Vera in a half and half solution thus combining my standard post shave WH with my standard AS balm product. I like both products very much so why not mix them together and get WH with Aloe for a fraction of the price?
Reading the back of the label of my Thayers non-alcohol toner, I see: "Thayers proprietary Witch Hazel extract (derived from the bark) is not distilled, thereby maintaining all the beneficial natural tannins."
So, it may not be real Witch Hazel, but it appears to not claim to be either. Regardless, I like the stuff, and will continue to use it.
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I promised two months ago I wouldn't talk about witch hazel anymore. 
Wrong again. Witch Hazel is extracted from the leaves, twigs and stems of Hamamelis virginiana, or "Virgin Witch" plant. It is steamed off and distilled using pure grain alcohol. The Witch Hazel plant itself produces about .0000000000000000000003 percent essential oil, which means that it would take an entire square mile field full of Witch Hazel plants to make up enough oil to go into a bottle of Witch Hazel. If that were the case, Witch Hazel would cost more than Heroin.
The first patented Witch Hazel was distilled using alcohol, though the Indians had been steam extracting alcohol based Witch Hazel for a thousand years. I'm not going to go into a whole big thing here, but if you think that an extract of a plant is usually oil and not alcohol, I have a couple of eighth grade chemistry books to send you.
Again, Thayer's can call it Witch Hazel as much as they want, but if it ain't got alcohol in it, it's not Witch Hazel, and if it doesn't have exactly 14% alcohol in it, then it's not Witch Hazel extract. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I really can't make this any clearer. Extracting a concoction from the Witch Hazel plant yields natural alcohols, which vary depending on the amount/methods used. You can't extract Witch Hazel liquid, using any known process, without extracting alcohol. To remove the natural amount of alcohol, you would in essence be altering the base of the compound, making it fake Witch Hazel Extract. Going by the patented, accepted, and standard method for Witch Hazel extract which has been in use for for over two hundred and fifty years, steam distillation of Witch Hazel extract adds exactly 14% alcohol content to the formula which is used as a preservative and as an antiseptc, no more and no less.
Again, you can make many different formulas that contain Witch Hazel extract, but unless they contain 14% alcohol by volume, they are not true Witch Hazels. Calling them as such is an outright falsehood, and to claim that by removing the natural alkids present in the plants DNA structure is "all natural", a company is taking you for a fool if they hope that you'll believe that. If anything, alcohol free "Witch Hazel" is as unnatural a concoction as alcohol free Wine or Beer. Budweiser, similarly, can call O'Doul's "alcohol free beer" all they want to, but unless it contains naturally processed alcohols yielded through fermentation, then it is not beer.
I'm sorry, maybe this is my professional background coming through, but in the eyes of a person like me, a formulation isn't ambiguous even if the chemicals involved can affect a varying degree of traits. In this case, Witch Hazel (the formula) and Witch Hazel (the plant) have neither, so it's not a matter of debate, but a matter of fact.
As for my sources, well, 30 seconds of googling turned this up:
That's what the federal government considers Witch Hazel to be, anyway.
http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.ca/witch-hazel-distillate-p-568.html
http://www.americandistilling.com/faqs.htm
http://stevenfoster.com/education/monograph/witchhazel.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2603/is_0001/ai_2603000137/
http://www.bestdeal.org/essential-oil/witchhazel.html
http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/usdisp/hamamelis_aqua.html
http://www.aromatherapy-at-home.com/witch-hazel-or-water.html
Here's some more links, as Google is your friend.
http://books.google.com/books?id=6s...vJz7Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result
http://www.viewpoints.com/Many-brands-witch-hazel-isopropyl-alcohol-preparation-review-0efe13
http://www.equinature.com/Portals/7/MSDS14PWHZL.pdf
http://benefitsofwitchhazel.blogspot.com/
http://www.whazel.eu/BPCUSP.pdf
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Witch-Hazel-to-Reduce-Hemorrhoids
http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=5130
http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/1997/oct97/witchaze.htm
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6006760.html
http://www.saffronrouge.com/aromatherapy/floral-waters/primavera-organic-witch-hazel-floral-water
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Witch_Hazel-9925440
http://www.chinese-herbs.org/witch-hazel/
http://www.starwest-botanicals.com/category/witch-hazel-extract/
http://www.natural-formulations.com/Products/Rubs/Rubs.htm
http://www.eduqna.com/Words-Wordplay/1182-2-words-4.html
http://arnoldia.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/421.pdf
Should I keep going?
I'm sorry but I have to step in. There are a few things you say that do not make sense. I also didn't go through all the links but the first four show that you are wrong. The 14% alcohol is added by the companies to make their product. So if somebody trade marked Witch Hazel and it is a product of Witch Hazel extract and 14% alcohol then fine you can't legally call something else Witch Hazel. Like Vaseline and petroleum jelly but Witch Hazel is a plant that gets chopped up and it's compounds distilled out. The plant is not 28 proof (or kids would eat it). All the alcohol is added as a preservative as stated above. The distilled extract is alcohol free and is not trademarked Witch Hazel. It now has all the compounds and oils that make it work other than alcohol for preserving it and actually helping in other ways. But you state that making the extract produces 14% alcohol. No it doesn't the alcohol is added. Later on you said that the tannins are gone because they are turned to alcohol. No tannins don't become alcohol and are lost in the distillation. And you can extract oils from a plant not alcohol. Extracts that you buy in stores like vanilla extract is the natural ingredients pulled out and then mixed with alcohol. But from everything I read from your links is that you take witch hazel plants and distill out the Witch Hazel compounds then add alcohol to preserve it. I don't see anyplace that says it isn't Witch Hazel before alcohol is added. Also one of your links shows Witch Hazel is in some toothpastes. With 14% alcohol in it? No just the Witch Hazel distillate. So if Thayers says it contains Witch Hazel as an ingredient, then it does. Can it use something other than alcohol as a preservative yes (does it, I have no idea). But to say that Thayers putting 20% grain alcohol in because they screwed up the distillation process is crazy. There were other points but I didn't want to go back through all the posts. Sorry
Tannins help to preserve by combining with oxygen (the reason heavily tannic red wines last so long) so that makes sense since they are not using alcohol to preserve.
You'll want to use SD Alcohol to get that Aqua Velva sting that you're used to. Gin has a lot of other stuff in it.
One more than I'm done
http://health.howstuffworks.com/witch-hazel-herbal-remedies.htm
http://health.howstuffworks.com/witch-hazel-herbal-remedies.htm
Way to misunderstand everything I tried to clear up regarding Witch Hazel. This is why I promised to stop writing about it, because it seems that I could write a forty page thesis and the argument will still come back that "Of course it's Witch Hazel, it says so right on the label!"
No actually every website you posted says that alcohol is added to the witch hazel. Please show one that shows that it isn't witch hazel unless alcohol is added or better yet one that shows alcohol is produced from the act of distilling the plant as you said.Way to misunderstand everything I tried to clear up regarding Witch Hazel. This is why I promised to stop writing about it, because it seems that I could write a forty page thesis and the argument will still come back that "Of course it's Witch Hazel, it says so right on the label!"
My question deals with outcome. Does Thayers Witch Hazel with 10% alcohol have disinfecting/antiseptic properties as good as "real" witch hazel? What about Thayer's compared to Aqua Velva or those other AS with high alcohol content?
I personally own Thayer's Peach and absolutely love the smell. After reading this thread I'm concerned with my Thayer's performance. Any input?
I personally own Thayer's Peach and absolutely love the smell. After reading this thread I'm concerned with my Thayer's performance. Any input?
Based every link posted yes. I still can't find anything that says "real" has to have 14% alcohol. This is posted on Dickinson
"Dickinson's Witch Hazel Ingredients: 100% all natural witch hazel containing 14% alcohol*
*TN Dickinson's Witch Hazel contains only natural alcohol derived from a botanical source. This ingredient is used in limited quantities as a natural preservative.
• 100% natural astringent for face and body • Soothes & Refreshes • Won’t dry like alcohol • Contains no artificial fragrances or dyes • Dermatologist tested and recommended • No animal Ingredients • No animal testing"
it is 100% natural (great) and contains witch hazel and alcohol. It isn't 100% witch hazel. It is 86% WH with 14% alcohol but like they say it is 100% natural. they just choose to cram it all on the first line. The next line states that they add the alcohol for a preservative. So they stated that they added alcohol to their 100% natural witch hazel . Some people add 0% alcohol to witch hazel and preserve other ways (tannins and citric acid?) Yes natural botanical alcohol. Like botanical as in grain for beer or grapes for wine. big deal grain alcohol. So why is their witch hazel real and other witch hazel not? And better yet your 10% Thayers has alcohol for preserving and anything else it might do plus the extra tannins. I wouldn't be concerned I would be happy. If the witch hazel alone did nothing why even add it to alcohol. Just put alcohol on your face. I don't mean to be sarcastic but I hate to see people concerned that their product is not going to work because it doesn't have 14% alcohol for preservation added.
"Dickinson's Witch Hazel Ingredients: 100% all natural witch hazel containing 14% alcohol*
*TN Dickinson's Witch Hazel contains only natural alcohol derived from a botanical source. This ingredient is used in limited quantities as a natural preservative.
• 100% natural astringent for face and body • Soothes & Refreshes • Won’t dry like alcohol • Contains no artificial fragrances or dyes • Dermatologist tested and recommended • No animal Ingredients • No animal testing"
it is 100% natural (great) and contains witch hazel and alcohol. It isn't 100% witch hazel. It is 86% WH with 14% alcohol but like they say it is 100% natural. they just choose to cram it all on the first line. The next line states that they add the alcohol for a preservative. So they stated that they added alcohol to their 100% natural witch hazel . Some people add 0% alcohol to witch hazel and preserve other ways (tannins and citric acid?) Yes natural botanical alcohol. Like botanical as in grain for beer or grapes for wine. big deal grain alcohol. So why is their witch hazel real and other witch hazel not? And better yet your 10% Thayers has alcohol for preserving and anything else it might do plus the extra tannins. I wouldn't be concerned I would be happy. If the witch hazel alone did nothing why even add it to alcohol. Just put alcohol on your face. I don't mean to be sarcastic but I hate to see people concerned that their product is not going to work because it doesn't have 14% alcohol for preservation added.
Does the word "dense" have any special meaning to you, or are you just screwing with me? Please, if this is a joke, I'm missing the punchline.
No it is 100% incorrect statements like this
"I can't really comment much on the Thayer's line, because honestly, I really don't know how they process their extract, or if true WH extract is even used, or if they just manufacture a cracked up "extract" using chemicals that are supposed to replicate the natural ingredients of Witch Hazel- I dunno.
See, even if they were to not use distillation as an extraction method, their "extract" should still have a pretty high alcohol content from the tannin count, though I seriously doubt it is as high as 10%- so even if they're "keeping it real" then they're still adding alcohol to the mixture some kind of way. The 20% alcohol Thayer's- I wouldn't even be able to begin to guess what that's all about. It sounds to me like they want to replicate the effects of "bad old" distilled Witch Hazel yet still somehow pretend to be "all natural".
And once again, this is just a guess being that I really don't know enough about the alcohol variants of Thayers, but yes, I would suspect that they're trying to "beef up" a weak, poorly extracted, or man-made Witch Hazel synthesis by adding pure grain alcohol. The whole idea is counter intuitive- alcohol distillation was a process that was invented in order to keep the extract pure and strong, and as a side benefit we have the alcohol byproduct which acts as a preservative as well as an antiseptic astringent, basically replacing and improving upon the natural tannins that are steamed away in distillation.
Now, if your formula is "all natural" and better for you like Thayer's claims, why do they feel the need to remove the natural alcohols from the Tannin in their extract? That's what they would have to do in order to claim "alcohol free", unless they're just lying. If they are removing the natural alkids, then how can they claim it's "all natural"? They're lying about something here, but I digress... as far as adding all that grain alcohol- it just sounds like a cheap way of salvaging left over product that was extracted improperly."
that I keep reading over and over and wondering where this can come from. My favorite though is removing the natural alcohols from the Tannin. You can say I am dense or anything else but that is easy to do to not show how what you say is fact and Thayers or anything else not exactly 14% is not witch hazel and doesn't work and is not all natural and tampered with. I am done. You can call me names or prove you right with real facts or prove your self wrong (easier). I'll let it drop and shake your hand if we ever met in person.
