Derbys just not cutting it...

**tantousha** · 03-28-2009, 08:29 PM

(Pun intended)

Ok, I've now gone through 2 Derby blades and while they provide a close shave, they always fail me ATG! The first blade I didn't try ATG until near the end of its life. As I worked my way up towards my chin it began dragging and snagging the hairs.. Resisting the urge to apply more pressure, I did another XTG pass and called it a day. Now, on my second, and brand new, Derby blade I'm getting the same thing! Is this just part of ATG? Or does it speak to the aggresiveness of Derby blades?

I have some Lords (Stainless and Platinum), some Israeli Personnas and some Feathers. I'm itching to try the Feathers, but I've only been doing this for two weeks and I have that noob fear about slicing my jugular with them...

Did I just have bad luck with my Derbys? Is this always what ATG feels like? Should I switch blades? Bah.

**Psychdude** · 03-28-2009, 08:34 PM

I can't do ATG yet either. I get lots of drag and jump...dunno why either. Can't help you, but at least you know you aren't alone ;)

**TstebinsB** · 03-28-2009, 08:36 PM

Even though Derbys aren't the sharpest around, a new blade is still sharp enough to go ATG. For a long time, Derbys were my only blade and I made ATG passes without much of a problem. Perhaps your shaving angle is too small. There's also the fact that newbies tend to go too unevenly when first trying out ATG. They're so afraid of cutting themselves that they make hesitation strokes. Be careful but also be decisive.

**Ru4scuba?** · 03-28-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by tantousha

The first blade I didn't try ATG until near the end of its life. As I worked my way up towards my chin it began dragging and snagging the hairs.. Resisting the urge to apply more pressure, I did another XTG pass and called it a day.

With this information alone...that means you only really have one data point (your second Derby experience) to go on. Trying to go ATG for your very first time with a blade near the end of its life is like trying to date a prostitute...you'll get burned every time.

It very well could be that Derby's are not for you...YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) is the saying of this forum. What works for one, will not work for the other.

Since you are new to DE you should stick with one blade, one soap and one AS for at least a couple of weeks until you get technique down enough to get at least a DFS shave. Then, after thats complete...change only one variable (razor, blade, soap/cream, or AS). Once you've made sure you've properly adjusted to that new variable, and can still get DFS or BBS shaves...change another variable.

Good luck!

**jacobcaz** · 03-28-2009, 09:00 PM

If you're not constantly nicking yourself with other DE blades you'll be fine with feathers. Just use a light touch and treat it like any other sharp blade you put near your face.

You might get a small weeper, but the feathers are usually so sharp you'll never even feel it until you notice a little spot of blood.

They're great blades, but Derby's worked really well for me and were much more attractively priced. I do enjoy the occasional feather though, and still have 20 or 30 of them I've acquired here and there.

**pablo_h** · 03-28-2009, 09:05 PM

Soften your beard more, ie more hot water prep, better lather and longer time to let the lather work.
After all that, if that's not the problem, then derbys are not for you.
I have the same problem with derbys, and I (edit: mainly )use feathers because they are the only blade that shaves ATG extremely easy for me and I need to shave ATG to get a close shave. Derbys are one of the worst blades for going ATG for me, I just don't think they are a very good blade at all.

So it might be your prep, it might be the blade.
edit: I can live with an IP, red IP, BIC, gillette yellow, croma, kai etc, while tthey don't shave ATG as comfortably or give as close a shave as feathers, they are OK qwith extra done prep. It's mainly derby that I can't stand.

**SilverKarn** · 03-28-2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by TstebinsB

Even though Derbys aren't the sharpest around, a new blade is still sharp enough to go ATG. For a long time, Derbys were my only blade and I made ATG passes without much of a problem. Perhaps your shaving angle is too small. There's also the fact that newbies tend to go too unevenly when first trying out ATG. They're so afraid of cutting themselves that they make hesitation strokes. Be careful but also be decisive.

THIS +1

If you hesitate, you will hurt yourself, i noticed that if i "just do it" i get less weepers and less razor burn than if i go at it with the mindset that ATG is where all the painful stuff happens.

**AudioNut** · 03-28-2009, 11:19 PM

I've been very happy with my Derby blades. I get at least 6 shaves out of each blade and have no problem going ATG. What I find is key is the prep work. I always use my DIY pre-shave gel then take a hot shower being careful not to wash away my gel. I then get out, dry everything except face and proceed to wash out my gel with hot water after I have my prorasso ready to go. No complaints from my wife or from me. :)

**thunderball** · 03-29-2009, 12:59 AM

The Feathers man, The Feathers!

Seriously, they ain't that scary...

**Luc** · 03-29-2009, 02:32 AM

I think you should give the Feathers a go. They are quite sharp. However, if going against the grain doesn't work for you, do not force it.

In my case, it didn't work at first... I tried doing it step-by-step. I was going against the grain with a blade that was skipping a bit. I didn't get any nick but it wasn't that great. After 2-3 weeks, I was able to use the same blades (Astra in this case, but now it could be any of them, almost) and do a smooth against the grain. My technique either improved and/or my facial hair changed. Either way, it took time but I can do it.

**talibeard** · 03-29-2009, 03:39 AM

I was very unhappy with the performance of the Derby's. And it was not just going ATG that they had trouble cutting my beard. YMMV indeed.
Of the blades you listed I get very nice and consistant results from the Lord Super Stainless and find them to be more comfortable than the feathers.
Feathers are no doubt sharper but the number of shaves I get out of them varies a lot from blade to blade and a shave with a feather stretched too far is far from pleasant.

**LondonCalling** · 03-29-2009, 04:38 AM

I'm not mad about Derbys but they seem to get better after the first shave. Can't quite work that one out.

**SRock** · 03-29-2009, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Ru4scuba?

Trying to go ATG for your very first time with a blade near the end of its life is like trying to date a prostitute...you'll get burned every time.

This is so going in the members quotes thread!

**Brad** · 03-29-2009, 07:16 AM

Try starting out diagonal ATG or using Vstrokes. The result is the same, but it seems to be an easier motion to master. Also you should focus on your angle.

Brad

**amateriat** · 03-29-2009, 10:25 PM

I say this because I learned the hard way about it, and thus don't believe it can be overemphasized. The beard needs to be truly saturated with moisture, preferably from a good shower beforehand, but, failing that, a good hot washcloth, liberally applied to the face, can do the job. Perhaps a pre-shave oil can help (I simply apply the same conditioner I use on my hair after shampooing in the shower), a thorough application of shave cream via brush, and (doing my best Jackie Gleason), awaaay we go!

Not to be picky, but in addition to not mentioning your shave prep, you didn't mention the razor you're using these blades in. Some are better than others, and some work better with certain blades than others. A razor that has a rep for being "mild" won't work especially well with a blade with the same rep; ditto for an aggressive razor with an equally aggressive blade. There's also the matter of your particular skin/beard. But offering more details can help zero in on potential issues. This is where a site like this can be a boon...I've learned a ton from other guys here and keep learning as I go along.

To quote a somewhat-famous radio talk-show host, keep asking questions.

- Barrett

**OldSaw** · 03-29-2009, 10:33 PM

All the prep in the world won't compensate for a blade that isn't cutting it. Derby's don't work for me either.

I prefer the Red Personna blades. You can get 100 for the modest price of only $10 at West Coast shaving.

**Mr. Igg** · 03-29-2009, 11:31 PM

Here's hoping you made a classic mistake as as newbie and ordered 2000 Derbys. If so, send them my way, please!!!

OK, in all seriousness, the advice about prep is very solid; and Dennis is on target that some blades just don't work for some razor/face combinations. To that, I'll add that later on, your improved technique might make the difference and let you use these blades very well. Case in point: For the longest time Derby blades didn't even come close to working for me in my Merkur HD. Then I finally tried them in a different razor (a Gillette Superspped) and bingo. Later, I tried them again in my first razor (the Merkur) and with my improved technique, they worked better. Not as well as in the Gillette, but better than when I'd first tried them in the Merkur. They're now my blade of choice. But, 3 months ago, I'd have been the very, very loud AMEN chorus for your post.

**tantousha** · 03-30-2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by amateriat

Not to be picky, but in addition to not mentioning your shave prep, you didn't mention the razor you're using these blades in. Some are better than others, and some work better with certain blades than others. A razor that has a rep for being "mild" won't work especially well with a blade with the same rep; ditto for an aggressive razor with an equally aggressive blade. There's also the matter of your particular skin/beard. But offering more details can help zero in on potential issues. This is where a site like this can be a boon...I've learned a ton from other guys here and keep learning as I go along.

To quote a somewhat-famous radio talk-show host, keep asking questions.

I guess posting my entire routine would be helpful...

Hot shower
Proraso Pre/Post
Proraso green tube
Merkur HD
Derby Blades.

One thing that comes to mind reading the responses is that I don't really let the shaving cream sit on my face for any amount of time before starting my shave... Just the amount of time it takes to put the brush down and pick up the razor. Reading some other posts I'm beginning to think I should let the lather sit on my face for a couple minutes...

Now if you excuse me gents, I need a hot shave, its been a stressful day!

**Trius** · 03-30-2009, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by amateriat

I say this because I learned the hard way about it, and thus don't believe it can be overemphasized. The beard needs to be truly saturated with moisture, preferably from a good shower beforehand, but, failing that, a good hot washcloth, liberally applied to the face, can do the job. Perhaps a pre-shave oil can help (I simply apply the same conditioner I use on my hair after shampooing in the shower), a thorough application of shave cream via brush, and (doing my best Jackie Gleason), awaaay we go!

Not to be picky, but in addition to not mentioning your shave prep, you didn't mention the razor you're using these blades in. Some are better than others, and some work better with certain blades than others. A razor that has a rep for being "mild" won't work especially well with a blade with the same rep; ditto for an aggressive razor with an equally aggressive blade. There's also the matter of your particular skin/beard. But offering more details can help zero in on potential issues. This is where a site like this can be a boon...I've learned a ton from other guys here and keep learning as I go along.

To quote a somewhat-famous radio talk-show host, keep asking questions.

- Barrett

I was going to say the same thing, but my friend from more than one forum beat me to it.

While I have had less than stellar experiences with Derby blades (in two different razors), I always assume that a "bad blade" is due to inadequate prep, then I work to prove otherwise.

WATER, WATER, WATER ... and the products that carry water. Like Barrett, I use hair conditioner at a minimum in the shower before the hot towel. My standard operating procedure is to apply a small amount of Cremo cream to my face before the towel. Cremo is super slick stuff, and I use it as a pre-shave, and a lathering cream on top.

For a full glory shave, I apply lathered cream on top of the Cremo before a steaming hot towel, and keep that on my face for as close to 3 minutes as possible, but less if the towel cools off too much. Then I re-lather and shave.

As for the ATG, they only problem area is the upper lip area. I have to take a lot of care there, and the best results come when I apply a thin layer of Cremo or pre shave oil before lathering the upper lip for that pass.

In my case, even the full prep and trying a Derby in a milder razor didn't make them any better. It may have been a bad batch of blades, but having a variety of blades that are consistently better for me, I am not interested in trying a different batch.