An Essentially Speicktacular Contributor Drawing!

**Ru4scuba?** · 03-25-2009, 06:18 PM

Can somebody PM me the requirements to be a contributor?

**Ru4scuba?** · 03-25-2009, 06:26 PM

Guess I should have read the whole thread LOL!

**HiFiGuy** · 03-25-2009, 08:23 PM

Guys, I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, and I hate to be a party-pooper, but I believe the way this drawing is setup constitutes an illegal lottery.

Legally, you can't require a purchase to enter or win (known as "consideration" in legalese) That is why you always hear the phrase "no purchase necessary to enter or win" in relation to drawings like this.

To be legal, I believe this drawing MUST have a way to enter that does not require any purchase or payment!

Here's some more information about this topic: Illegal Lotteries

Incidently, I'm not a lawyer, but I am a compliance officer for a bank - we deal with these sorts of things ocassionally. Oh, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too!

**krisbarger** · 03-25-2009, 08:26 PM

Ok..... lets call it a raffle.

**HiFiGuy** · 03-25-2009, 08:37 PM

It doesn't matter what you call it, it still qualifies as an illegal lottery if you require some form of "consideration" to enter.

Examples of consideration include conditioning entry on the participants, such as requiring:
1. purchase of a product;
2. monetary payment;
3. visiting a store, or
4. provision of detailed consumer information.

Like I said, I believe all we need to do to be legal is have a way to enter the drawing without requiring a purchase or payment....

**biomesh** · 03-25-2009, 08:39 PM

A raffle can require the purchase of tickets(contribution status), so a raffle it is.

**krisbarger** · 03-25-2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

It doesn't matter if you change the name, it still qualifies as an illegal lottery if you require "consideration" to enter.

Examples of consideration include conditioning entry on the participants, such as requiring:
1. purchase of a product;
2. monetary payment;
3. visiting a store, or
4. provision of detailed consumer information.

Like I said, I believe all we need to do to be legal is have a way to enter the drawing without requiring a purchase or payment....

I am sure you would, with 24 posts and no donation to keep a site like this going. Maybe everybody should have to pay to join this site... period. That would fix our little run in with the LAW.

**HiFiGuy** · 03-25-2009, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by biomesh

A raffle can require the purchase of tickets(contribution status), so a raffle it is.

This is a common misconception, and I believe for the most part, it's not true.
In some cases, like charity fund-raising yes, but B&B is not a charity, and would have to register a raffle in some states anyway.

Here's the info: Raffles

Maybe there is a real attorney on the site that can offer guidance on this issue. Maybe you would all believe him instead. I only wish to prevent any potential legal unpleasantness from befalling B&B.

Please refrain from "shooting the messenger", or throwing barbs.
Thanks, I'm going to bed....

**krisbarger** · 03-25-2009, 09:10 PM

So.... How does one acquire a brush with the sweet clear handle? Someone pray tell.

**OldSaw** · 03-25-2009, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

Guys, I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, and I hate to be a party-pooper, but I believe the way this drawing is setup constitutes an illegal lottery.

Legally, you can't require a purchase to enter or win (known as "consideration" in legalese) That is why you always hear the phrase "no purchase necessary to enter or win" in relation to drawings like this.

To be legal, I believe this drawing MUST have a way to enter that does not require any purchase or payment!

Here's some more information about this topic: Illegal Lotteries

Incidently, I'm not a lawyer, but I am a compliance officer for a bank - we deal with these sorts of things ocassionally. Oh, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too!

I was hoping no one would bring this up. However, there could be some sort of post count and/or length of membership requirement that may be a work around. Legal fees could easily offset any gain if this is going to be an issue.

I think 24 posts is a little weak, but then again a few members could simply start a post doping thread to up their count. Time, on the other hand can't be faked.

**Cheech** · 03-26-2009, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

Maybe there is a real attorney on the site that can offer guidance on this issue. Maybe you would all believe him instead. I only wish to prevent any potential legal unpleasantness from befalling B&B.

Please refrain from "shooting the messenger", or throwing barbs.
Thanks, I'm going to bed....

I am probably with the majority here who, at first blush, take this in a negative way.

I'm also willing to give the benefit of the doubt and believe that this was made with the best intentions.

Of course, I'm guessing that there is a lawyer here somewhere who can comment on this. I'm also guessing that the fact that this site is a not-for-profit (social group), these items are undoubtedly being given away by individuals (and not purchased by a corporation), and the low dollar value of the "prize" would affect any possible legal problems.

It is truly unfortunate that we live in a litigious society where legality has replaced morality and etiquette. Not pointing any fingers. Just making a general observation.

But then again, what do I know? I'm a bear. I suck the heads off fish.

**biomesh** · 03-26-2009, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

Maybe there is a real attorney on the site that can offer guidance on this issue. Maybe you would all believe him instead. I only wish to prevent any potential legal unpleasantness from befalling B&B.

Please refrain from "shooting the messenger", or throwing barbs.
Thanks, I'm going to bed....

Ok, IMO I would add few clauses to make this fit your interpretation of fairness.

- A non paying contributor can have an entry if they have been a member of B&B for over 4 years and have over 1,000 posts
- A non paying contributor can have an entry if they have received a merit award
- A non paying contributor can have an entry if they have donated over $200 of shaving related gear for PIFs
- A non paying contributor can have entry if they have over 10,000 posts

If you meet the above criteria then you truly have contributed in some way.

I still think it is sad how many people feel such a high degree of entitlement without doing anything.

**jazzman** · 03-26-2009, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

Incidently, I'm not a lawyer, but I am a compliance officer for a bank - we deal with these sorts of things ocassionally. Oh, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too!

I'm not a doctor or a physicist, but I'm going to perform nuclear surgery tomorrow, if I feel like it.

**HiFiGuy** · 03-26-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by biomesh

Ok, IMO I would add few clauses to make this fit your interpretation of fairness.

- A non paying contributor can have an entry if they have been a member of B&B for over 4 years and have over 1,000 posts
- A non paying contributor can have an entry if they have received a merit award
- A non paying contributor can have an entry if they have donated over $200 of shaving related gear for PIFs
- A non paying contributor can have entry if they have over 10,000 posts

If you meet the above criteria then you truly have contributed in some way.

I still think it is sad how many people feel such a high degree of entitlement without doing anything.

Biomesh - you are correct - conditions such as the ones you mention can be added to make it more difficult to qualify for the drawing. I have absolutely no problem with that! That is a common (and legal) method used to limit the number of participants. All I am advising is that there must be a way to enter - that does not involve payment - in order to avoid being classified as an illegal lottery.

While I would love to win these great prizes, I certainly understand wanting to reserve this for certain members. It just should be done in a legal way. I'm fine with it if I don't qualify, no problem. My (short) experience on B&B leads me to believe that there are alot of smart, quality members that like to do things (like shaving) the right way. Well, I want to help B&B do this the right way, even if doesn't include me.

BTW, I don't think these laws were written to create or satisfy a sense of entitlement...I believe they were written to protect consumers.

**joel** · 03-26-2009, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

Guys, I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, and I hate to be a party-pooper, but I believe the way this drawing is setup constitutes an illegal lottery.

Legally, you can't require a purchase to enter or win (known as "consideration" in legalese) That is why you always hear the phrase "no purchase necessary to enter or win" in relation to drawings like this.

To be legal, I believe this drawing MUST have a way to enter that does not require any purchase or payment!

Here's some more information about this topic: Illegal Lotteries

Incidently, I'm not a lawyer, but I am a compliance officer for a bank - we deal with these sorts of things ocassionally. Oh, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too!

There is... Moderators have access to the contributors forum and are able to enter the contest. Work your butt off to become a mod. Also, those on the development team who have made significant contributions, merit award winners, etc get access to the contrib forum and can enter.

**joshmpdx** · 03-26-2009, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by HiFiGuy

Incidently, I'm not a lawyer, but I am a compliance officer for a bank

Our Moderators are Lawyers

**adamant** · 03-27-2009, 05:14 AM

Is April 15 also the last day one has to become a contributer and to be counted for the contest?

Also, how do mods become mods, maybe we could have a little history of their climb to stardom.

**ginantonix** · 03-27-2009, 06:50 PM

To get the thread back on topic...

I'm not sure if Canada counts as international shipping (I suspect it does) but I'm going to contribute anyway. It's a very small amount relative to the enjoyment that this forum has given me, not to mention the exponential improvement that wet shaving has brought to my mornings. I also appreciate the tremendous effort that the mods go to to keep the forum active, relevant and professional. Thanks a million, guys!

I always wondered what the 'contributor' tag meant.... Now I know.

**SavantStrike** · 03-29-2009, 03:35 PM

Well. I thought contributor meant either wrote an article or two, or it meant donated money.... I never saw the link to donate till now because B&B is a classy site without a bunch of pushy "pay us now" signs, but now that I've seen where to contribute, I did

.

I guess I'll enter while I'm at it.