Problems with watery lather and how to get a closer shave?

**dummptyhummpty** · 03-06-2009, 08:17 AM

Thanks to the help of the posts in my previous thread, I've now got basics down for getting a less irritating shave. For a comparison, I even switched back to my old method of shaving (just ATG) this morning and I feel the difference (ouch!). Unfortunately, I'm still having trouble with two things:

1) I'm using The Art of Shaving's shaving cream that came in their starter kit. I'm having trouble with it being too watery as this seems to lead to a more irritated face. Sometimes I can get a nice lather, but when I go to apply more cream for a second (or third) pass it's watery again. I use an almond size drop of shaving cream and have tried various amounts of water. Should I just switch to a different brand of shaving cream?

2) I'm having trouble getting a close shave, mostly under my chin and along my jaw line. My three passes (WTG, XTG, ATG) seems to take off the visible hair, but running my hand across this area, it's clear there is still alot there. I either have to tilt my head down or stretch the skin in this area to get at the hair. It also requires multiple passes to pick it up, all of which cause major irritation.

What can I do to solve these two problems? BTW, i'm still using a (new) Mach3 until I sort out these issues.

I'm not sure if my prep matters, but I shave in the shower: I wash my face (with Dove soap) and before shaving, run hot water on it for 15-30 seconds. I then mix up my shaving cream, apply it with my brush and shave.

Thanks for the help every one!

**Jim** · 03-06-2009, 08:22 AM

Watery lather is well, too much water. How are you building the lather?

**dummptyhummpty** · 03-06-2009, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Jim

Watery lather is well, too much water. How are you building the lather?

I put about an inch of water in a mug and let the brush sit in it for a few mins. I then empty the mug and shake the brush off. I add about an almond sized drop of cream and start mixing. Sometimes the lather is good, but other times it's watery. Today it was fine, but when I went to relather my face for a second pass it was too watery. The brush had been sitting on it's stand and I didn't add any water.

**Jim** · 03-06-2009, 09:37 AM

You say mug, like a coffee mug? Thats not much room to build the lather, a bowl 5 or 6 inches across is much better.
Don't be afraid to soak the brush, you can throw it in the sink with no problem.

**richmondesi** · 03-06-2009, 09:46 AM

I think that you'll find that the irritation will improve by simply dumping the Mach 3. Irritation comes from too many passes from blades. Each pass with a Mach 3 is like 3 passes. So by the time you go WTG XTG ATG - You have made 9 passes... Also, what kind of brush are you using?

**dummptyhummpty** · 03-06-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Jim

You say mug, like a coffee mug? Thats not much room to build the lather, a bowl 5 or 6 inches across is much better.
Don't be afraid to soak the brush, you can throw it in the sink with no problem.

Yeah a coffee mug. I think i'm going to try shaving after a shower and i'll try using a bowl.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

I think that you'll find that the irritation will improve by simply dumping the Mach 3. Irritation comes from too many passes from blades. Each pass with a Mach 3 is like 3 passes. So by the time you go WTG XTG ATG - You have made 9 passes... Also, what kind of brush are you using?

Yeah, I already moved from a Fusion to the Mach 3 (wow!) and I didn't want to invest in a DE until I was sure I would like this new method. I guess it's time to switch. Will I get a closer shave with the DE? That's my main issue now. My brush is the AoS Genuine Badger.

**richmondesi** · 03-06-2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by dummptyhummpty

Yeah a coffee mug. I think i'm going to try shaving after a shower and i'll try using a bowl.

Yeah, I already moved from a Fusion to the Mach 3 (wow!) and I didn't want to invest in a DE until I was sure I would like this new method. I guess it's time to switch. Will I get a closer shave with the DE? That's my main issue now. My brush is the AoS Genuine Badger.

I don't think that you will find many people on this forum that will dispute that you will get a better shave with a DE when you master good prep and technique. As far as your watery lather goes, I think you may want to try to shake some more of the water out. You should also watch the Mantic59 videos on youtube. They are really good!

**dummptyhummpty** · 03-06-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by richmondesi

I don't think that you will find many people on this forum that will dispute that you will get a better shave with a DE when you master good prep and technique. As far as your watery lather goes, I think you may want to try to shake some more of the water out. You should also watch the Mantic59 videos on youtube. They are really good!

Yeah, I have watched those! I'll try all the suggestions here when I next shave on Sunday. Should I just start with a basic DE from AoS (in the local mall)?

**crocto** · 03-06-2009, 12:21 PM

i would definately reduce the amount of water you use. if your lather looks too thick or dry you can always add more water. just a few drops might even be enough.

the art of shaving DEs are really just rebranded merkur razors you can get them a bit cheaper online. i'd also suggest a blade sampler pack.

**richmondesi** · 03-06-2009, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by dummptyhummpty

Yeah, I have watched those! I'll try all the suggestions here when I next shave on Sunday. Should I just start with a basic DE from AoS (in the local mall)?

The choice of razor is a very debatable subject. I would think that you may be better served to head over to the BST to find one from a B&Ber.

**cammyfive** · 03-06-2009, 01:06 PM

I had been using the C&E Pure badger brush until recently; it is probably on par with the AoS version you are using. I switched to the Best Badger Brush and now my lathers are spot on. Before they were hit or miss, either too thick or way too watery. Consider upgrading brushes, but I also agree that you should focus on technique until then.

**joto** · 03-06-2009, 01:34 PM

Perhaps as an experiment, you could add more cream. As others have said, watery lather means too much water. If you're not adding much water, you might try more cream.

I generally end up using more cream than most people describe here on the forums. I don't know why, but I can think of two possibilities:

1) My water quality is wanting in some way.

2) I simply like a consistency of lather that requires more product- personal preference.

I suggest trying twice as much cream as you think you need as an experiment. I find it's easier to dial back the amount of cream you need than trying to get too little to work properly. If the lather is still watery, maybe your water does not like that cream. Some shaving creams or soaps definitely don't perform as well for me as others seem to think they will. Don't worry about waste- it sounds like you aren't getting the performance you want, so what's the harm in using some up if you may pitch it anyway? Even if you keep it, how valuable will it be if it is not giving you great shaves? I always burn through a little bit of any cream I have never had before figuring out the water ratios.

I've not used AoS creams before, but if the cream is softer/ less dense it has more water built in, and obviously requires less to be added. An almond sized amount of Castle Forbes (almost a soap) sure will go a lot farther than the same amount of a lot of other creams! My denser T&H and Trumpers go farther than my Taylor's creams.

And if you want to experiment cheaply with a DE razor, I picked up three butterfly-top gillette Superspeeds at junk/ antique shops locally for $5 total. I took a cheap store-bought DE blade package with me to make sure they held the blade straight and securely. After cleaning them REAL well (boiled the all-metal one, plus bar keeper's friend and dish soap witha toothbrush) they work beautifully. Frankly, unless they are badly corroded and/ or structurally damaged, they're pretty much indestructible under normal use. Some have said that the vintage gillettes are built to a higher quality level than the cheaper modern DE's, but I have never tried a modern one so I couldn't say. I got into the hobby looking to save money, and like most people, THAT didn't last...

Hope this helps, good luck.

**joto** · 03-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Also maybe experiment with when and how fast you add the water- If I start with what ultimitely will be the correct amount, the lather is never as good as if I add it in portions. Also, I personally prefer to add the water rather quickly, as if I whip it longer between water additions it ends up more airy than I care for.