Help with building lather

I'm using a badger brush and mitchells wool fat soap.

I am seriously struggling to build a good lather.

Current process is, wet the brush and shake it a few times. Then go over to the soap, lightly swirl the soap a few times, and then go into a separate bowl that has a little warm water in, and start swirling.

Even when I get to 3 - 4 mins I struggle to have a decent / enough lather going.

Any tips?

I'm still new to this as well and if there's one thing I learned really quick (and that the pro's will tell you) is that if you are having problems building a good lather, you're probably not loading your brush with enough soap.

Make sure to read the lathering tutorial SEVERAL times and I think your problems will be solved. I'd especially focus on putting the recommended 1tsp of water on your soap and let that soften it up before you load your brush, that made a world of difference to me.

ipwn said:

Current process is, wet the brush and shake it a few times. Then go over to the soap, lightly swirl the soap a few times, and then go into a separate bowl that has a little warm water in, and start swirling.

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Your problems are twofold: way too little soap in the brush, and too much water in the bowl. You're shaving with soap bubbles instead of lather.

1. Swirl on the soap for at least half a minute (perhaps even a minute), occasionally 'pumping' it up and down to soak up the suds into the brush. Ignore the outcries that this eats up your soap. Soaps are meant to be used, not to be conserved.
2. Leave out the water in the bowl, just start building, moving lots of air through the concentrated soap mix---add little drips of water if you get the feeling the lather doesn't change in consistency and volume any more, and keep on doing that until you reach the lather you want to shave with.

Good luck!

Good advice above. Sounds like you're not loading the brush enough.

During prep, put some warm water on the top of the soap to soften it. Pour it out before you start loading the brush. Don't just lightly swirl on the soap...really work the brush into the soap, back and forth, swirling, try to get soap all up in the bristles until they stick together really well and have swollen up from the soapy goodness. Only then should you move to a lather bowl or your face.

If you're lathering in a bowl, start with a teaspoon of warm water in the bottom of the bowl. Start swirling the brush, you'll get large bubbles at first, but then they will become smaller and the lather will thicken. Once the lather thickens, add a few drops of warm water--not too much!! Then whip it up again. The lather will thicken and increase in volume. Add a little more water and repeat. Do this until your lather is well hydrated and thick. You'll know you're doing well when the lather develops peaks that collapse under their own weight.

The most important thing is having enough soap on the brush in the first place, and adding water only a little bit at a time. Hope that helps. Good luck!!

RoyalKooparillo said:

During prep, put some warm water on the top of the soap to soften it. Pour it out before you start loading the brush.

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This is not really necessary, and causes damage with some soaps. It's better to begin with a brush that is too dry (don't confuse this with a dry brush, though), adding a little bit of water to pick up more soap, than to soften the soap in advance. Once you get the hang of the process of soap dissolution (see next paragraph), you'll see why wetting the soap is not really necessary. There might be a few extreme cases---very hard soap, very old soap---where wetting is useful, but I've not found necessary with all 'fresh' soaps I've used to date.

Don't just lightly swirl on the soap...really work the brush into the soap, back and forth, swirling, try to get soap all up in the bristles until they stick together really well and have swollen up from the soapy goodness....

Click to expand...

Pressure is not necessary: it will just expose your brush to unnecessary wear and tear. The idea is that you want to dissolve the soap, with the bristles continually softly scraping away the thin layer of soap solution to expose fresh new soap surface. It may take a little longer if you're not 'really working the brush into the soap', but trust me, your brush will repay you with a longer longevity. That particular lesson cost me $90---I needed to replace my silvertip three months later.

If you're lathering in a bowl, start with a teaspoon of warm water in the bottom of the bowl. Start swirling the brush, you'll get large bubbles at first, but then they will become smaller and the lather will thicken. Once the lather thickens, add a few drops of warm water--not too much!!

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Since the amount of water is pretty important, I think it's best not to add water in advance if you still don't know the correct amount. If you know the soap well, then you can add water whenever you like. This is merely an issue of being able to reproduce what you've done though, it's not that the soap needs water in the bowl beforehand or anything.

You'll know you're doing well when the lather develops peaks that collapse under their own weight.

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This is, from the looks of things, over-hydrated lather with next to absent cushion. While everyone has their own preference, I think a better starting point is 'soft peak' meringue. Peaks should still be able to stand on their own, but their points should not be sharp and distinct anymore. But this is the most general of guidelines, really. Fortunately, it's easy to change by adding less or more water when building .

The most important thing is having enough soap on the brush in the first place, and adding water only a little bit at a time. Hope that helps.

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That is so true I had to quote it again for good measure.

I officially suck at this!

I was on the soap bar for at least 60 seconds. Looked like I had enough.

Spent a good 4 mins in the bowl trying to lather it up, but there isn't enough there.

The little lather that was there was good, but there wasnt enough, if I brush it onto my face, it sort of dissolves if you get what I mean.

ipwn said:

I was on the soap bar for at least 60 seconds. Looked like I had enough. Spent a good 4 mins in the bowl trying to lather it up, but there isn't enough there.

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Well, keep in mind it's hard to tell for sure without any visual feedback . I usually take a bit longer to load, but I have a big face, and use up a good deal of lather. That said, a minute should be enough to create at least some lather which does not evaporate like you describe below. When you're loading the brush---assuming that you are holding the soap in your hands---is there (woud there be) a lot of soggy suds dripping off of its surface? Or does it all remain in a thin pasty layer?

The little lather that was there was good, but there wasnt enough, if I brush it onto my face, it sort of dissolves if you get what I mean.

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Yes, I know what you mean. It fizzes, and turns into buttermilk. And when you shave, it feels like you're scraping rather than cutting. I hate to say this, but this is either too little soap (or too much water, it's all in the ratio of the two, of course), or your water is so hard that the soap won't foam properly. I trust you don't have a problem with other soaps and/or creams?

Ok,

Well ive figured that it is better for me to do in directly onto my face as it works for me !

Woo.

cymric said:

I hate to say this, but this is either too little soap (or too much water, it's all in the ratio of the two, of course), or your water is so hard that the soap won't foam properly.

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It could be that the bowl he's using is too hot.

cymric said:

Well, keep in mind it's hard to tell for sure without any visual feedback . I usually take a bit longer to load, but I have a big face, and use up a good deal of lather. That said, a minute should be enough to create at least some lather which does not evaporate like you describe below. When you're loading the brush---assuming that you are holding the soap in your hands---is there (woud there be) a lot of soggy suds dripping off of its surface? Or does it all remain in a thin pasty layer?


Yes, I know what you mean. It fizzes, and turns into buttermilk. And when you shave, it feels like you're scraping rather than cutting. I hate to say this, but this is either too little soap (or too much water, it's all in the ratio of the two, of course), or your water is so hard that the soap won't foam properly. I trust you don't have a problem with other soaps and/or creams?

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Im a n00b, this is my first soap etc etc.

When a load the brush there just seems to be a paste forming and some lather forms on the cake.

Water isn't dripping everywhere though.

Quietville said:

It could be that the bowl he's using is too hot.

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I severely doubt that.

How hot should the bowl be?

cymric said:

This is not really necessary, and causes damage with some soaps. It's better to begin with a brush that is too dry (don't confuse this with a dry brush, though), adding a little bit of water to pick up more soap, than to soften the soap in advance. Once you get the hang of the process of soap dissolution (see next paragraph), you'll see why wetting the soap is not really necessary. There might be a few extreme cases---very hard soap, very old soap---where wetting is useful, but I've not found necessary with all 'fresh' soaps I've used to date.

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Although I have heard this theory about damaging soaps, I do it every day and I have not experienced ANY negative side effects. It makes loading a brush much easier and it vastly improves the results, IMO. So, I disagree.

cymric said:

Pressure is not necessary: it will just expose your brush to unnecessary wear and tear. The idea is that you want to dissolve the soap, with the bristles continually softly scraping away the thin layer of soap solution to expose fresh new soap surface. It may take a little longer if you're not 'really working the brush into the soap', but trust me, your brush will repay you with a longer longevity. That particular lesson cost me $90---I needed to replace my silvertip three months later.

Click to expand...

Perhaps I should have been more clear. By 'working the brush into the soap' I did not mean mashing the brush in there and ruining your bristles. It's common sense. But then again, I'm working with a soft upper layer of soap, and you're not. So that might be why we have divergent perspectives.

cymric said:

Since the amount of water is pretty important, I think it's best not to add water in advance if you still don't know the correct amount. If you know the soap well, then you can add water whenever you like. This is merely an issue of being able to reproduce what you've done though, it's not that the soap needs water in the bowl beforehand or anything.

Click to expand...

Well, if you want you can skip adding a teaspoon of water at first. But you'll just have to add some in about 20-30 seconds anyway. That's why I said a teaspoon. It's a measured amount, so it doesn't matter whether the OP knows the correct amount of water or not--he's going to need a small amount of water in there near the beginning of lathering, no matter which way you slice it. So, again I disagree. I gave advice that can be used whether you know a soap well or you don't know it at all. A teaspoon of warm water, a loaded brush, some whipping, and little bit of water at a time as the mixture thickens.

cymric said:

This is, from the looks of things, over-hydrated lather with next to absent cushion. While everyone has their own preference, I think a better starting point is 'soft peak' meringue. Peaks should still be able to stand on their own, but their points should not be sharp and distinct anymore. But this is the most general of guidelines, really. Fortunately, it's easy to change by adding less or more water when building .

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have to point out that this statement is completely false to me. The problem with 'soft-peaks' is that many soap lathers can get to this point, as you say, with self-supporting soft peaks and still be VERY underhydrated. Try shaving with those and then you'll really experience some lack of cushion. It is a poor measure for a lather's hydration, IMO. If the peaks begin to collapse, it is a sign that it is well hydrated. Just by calling it meringue you're implying that there's some heft to the mixture. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about messy soup here, with big bubbles and the like. THAT would be over-hydration.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I have been shaving with soaps for quite some time, and I advised the OP based on what works best in my experience. My advice should work well regardless of soap choice. Yes, each soap lathers differently...but if you have a standard skill set--brush loading, adding a little water at a time, knowing when to recognize hydrated lather--you should be able to be successful with darn near any soap.