Still can't make good lather

Hi all,

In an earlier thread I posted the following:

"Terrible Lather: I can't for the life of me seem to build good lather from my soap (Taylor of Old Bond Street Classic Shaving Soap). The lather on the other half of my face dries by the time I get to it, and I barely can generate enough lather for a second pass. What's left for the second pass is thinner and dries even more quickly. I've read both the "Glycerin Soap Tutorial - Part 1 & 2" thread and the "How to make great lather from a soap ~ Tutorial" thread, but they seem to offer conflicting views. One says I should give the brush just a few light flicks before putting it to the soap, while the other suggests I squeeze the bristles vigorously and give the brush a few good shakes. I am using a silvertip brush made Fendrihan (Bristle loft: 52mm, Knot size: 22mm, if it matters)"

I did get some helpful suggestions, but the quality of my lather still hasn't improved. I still find that I have next to nothing left for even my second pass, and that the lather dries quickly. I have been using the soap and experimenting and tinkering for about 2 weeks now, trying more and then less water, but the end result is more or less the same. I can't imagine how it's possible to get the mountains of lather seen in the pictures on the various soap tutorial posts. What could I be doing wrong? I submerge the lather bowl and brush in hot water for a few minutes, I throw a teaspoon of water on the soap to prepare it, I squeeze the brush out and give it a few shakes, and I only add a very little amount of water (about half a teaspoon) at a time while creating the lather in the bowl. if it matters, I use a shaving mug (Burt's Bees) to create the lather. I should mention that I am a first time DE shaver, and I started out with the soap, not having ever used a cream.

Thanks for your help!

You likely need more soap. You really have to load that brush until it is super sticky with soap and not a drop more will fit it in the thing. THAT is how you get the mountains of lather. AND if your brush is small, it might not be a bad idea to squeeze out the remaining lather and reload it AGAIN after each pass.

My advice: buy a decent shaving cream and work with that for awhile. THEN go back to the soap later.

Try lathering directly on the puck. If nothing else this will ensure you have plenty of product. I live in an area with a water quality that is horrible for lathering, and had alot of the same problems the first week or so. I don't remember Toronto's water being so bad, but give it a try.

Try this:

1. soak brush
2. add a good cm of very hot water to the top of the soap and let sit 10 minutes
3. after ten minutes, rub your finger around on the soap (in the water)
4. pour soapy water into separate container
5. grip soap container tightly, shake upside down to get all loose moisture off
6. squeeze, then shake brush thoroughly
7. begin loading soap onto brush, pressing and swirling the brush slowly as a paste develops. You don't want bubbles or lather here, just a very thick paste. Continue until the paste has collected up to a cm "deep" at the tips of the bristles. If the soap and brush are so dry you can't get paste, add a drop or two of water (not more)
8. Begin swirling brush in dry lather bowl. Little will happen at first if the paste is properly thick - that's good. Add the soapy water you saved a tiny bit at a time (maybe several drops). Each bit of water you add should make only a small difference, but make sure to swirl and pump the brush until that difference has taken hold before adding the next tiny bit of soapy water. Eventually, thick lather should start to develop. Continue adding soapy water in small increments until you reach the desired consistency/volume of lather.

This will take some time, but it will go much faster later.
If the above doesn't work, report back.

all good suggestions above and I would try them and follow them 1st and just add when mixing lather sometimes it takes quite a few minutes of mixing and adding water a little at a time until it basically starts exploding into lather, as last resorts try one or all of these suggestions, bottled water, another soap or cream, (proraso lathers super easy for starters) face lathering

so far in my collection of about 30 soaps and 30 creams I have run across 1 soap and 1 cream that I just can't get to bowl lather no matter what despite others saying they have no problem, and I have tried everything except bottled water, different brushes different amounts of soap/cream, water, mixing for 10 minutes all to no success but in both cases face lathering worked fine

also if you haven't already check out Mantics you tube videos on lathering

You guys pretty much said it all. Different soaps and creams require different amounts of water and work. Just stick with it.

I'm definitely no expert whatsoever. I've been wetshaving for a little over a month now. Three days ago, I was literally in your exact same position regarding lathering soaps. I could lather creams just fine though. Basically, just like you, the lather on the other side of my face would dry out and I thought that mounds of lather was an impossible feat. I'm using a Vulfix 2233 brush FWIW.

Two days ago I think I unlocked the secret! For me, it was definitely a matter of not getting enough soap on the brush. I was following the same steps that you were, specifically the "How to make great lather from a soap ~ Tutorial" version where you soak the brush and soap, and then squeeze/shake the brush out to load it. This method was not working for me properly at all no matter what I did. I'm still wayyy too new at this to know why, but I suspect it was/is my floppy vulfix brush that just can't load soap fast/easy enough. I just received my rooney 1/1 super today and I'm so excited to try it tomorrow and see if I can get even better results.

I was originally trying to just leave my Trumpers limes soap in the wooden bowl and load my soaked/squeezed/shaken brush by swirling for 30-40 seconds, then move it to my lathering mug. The lather always looked just "ok," was enough for about 2 passes, but really dried out fast and I had to re-lather my face mid pass, then reload after the second pass (sometimes third).

But on to what worked for me!!

So what I did starting two days ago, was put the puck (actually two days ago was an HBS almond puck, but this same procedure worked beautifully today also with the Trumpers) in a cup/bowl deep enough to really go to town on it (a small, short coffee cup for the HBS soap worked for me and my regular lather bowl for the Trumpers). Instead of soaking the brush like I had been, I just ran the brush under warm/hot water for maybe 15-20 seconds. I worked the water into the bristles a bit with my hands while I ran the water over it. I then *gently* shook it 2 or 3 times to get it so it wasn't pouring water off, but so it was still decently damp. Next, I filled the sink with hot water. I then starting going to town on loading the brush on the puck in the mug/bowl doing everything I could to annihilate the puck with the brush, getting as much soap as possible into it. Plunging, stabbing, twisting, twirling, whipping, you name it. When I was doing this, it started at first to load the brush up alright, more or less the same as usual. The brush and loading was grabbing soap but it was starting to "grab it dry" if that makes sense and the loading slowed down. So, I stopped loading for a quick second, gently and quickly dipped the brush tips maybe 1/8" into the hot water in the sink, then went back to town loading on the puck. This started to actually create a little tiny bit of really really dense "lather." What seemed to work was going at it this way (and possibly having to dip the tips of the brush once again, depending on whether or not you have the thick lather forming yet) until a "wayy too thick" lather starts to form, that is, still lather, but very very thick lather that is more like raw soap paste than anything else really, but still sort of resembles lather. Then, I took my now much heavier, super loaded brush to my lather bowl and used my fingers to grab whatever thick lather was sitting on/in the soap/mug and moved it to the lather bowl also. Then, I just started whipping it all up in the lather bowl, dipping the tips of the brush into the sink water as needed (I was surprised how well dipping the tips works for adding water, the soap sort of repels most of the water, but it it does picks up a little at a time - just enough it seems). In the end, this created a RIDICULOUS amount of lather just like I had been hoping for and seeing in the lather porn pictures found around this site. It also was much much better on my face, much much more lubricating than I'd had in the past, it didn't dry out nearly as much, it seemed "just right." In truth, it was too much lather. I did 3.5 passes plus touchup and probably had enough for another 3 passes, lol. But the shaves were so good I didn't care! I'm thinking I'll be able to learn to tone it down a little at a time, but for now, it's so much better to have too much than not enough!

Sorry for the way way too long and probably too detailed post. I just really wanted to let you know exactly what I've found out as one newbie to another since we were in the exact same situation and I'm excited that I finally broke through.

Just to summarize really quick -- based on my experiences, which seem similar to yours, you basically need more soap, and to achieve that, the easy way I've found is to load the brush on the soap, in a bowl, and add *just a little* water, enough to start a very dense, very very thick pasty lather on the soap, then move it all to the lather bowl, and whip it up while adding a little water at a time. When you think you have a ridiculously loaded brush with a nice thick dense pasty lather, go at it even more and load it even more. Make it ridiculous! You can always tone it back in the future!

To make this post even longer with some further conclusions... Thinking about it now after reading this post over, I think I was originally loading with too dry of a brush -- it wasn't picking up enough soap because it was *too* dry. Perhaps shaking and squeezing my vulfix brush gets too much water out. Maybe it doesn't hold water all that great. I've noticed just playing with my new rooney tonight that it was surprising how much water it was still holding after squeezing and shaking it. I can squeeze/shake my vulfix until it's literally 95% dry, but the rooney I couldn't get better than maybe 75% dry no matter what I did. Either way, I still think even if I left my vulfix a little wetter, the wooden bowl for the trumper's isn't deep enough and all the paste and suds start to spill over. I still would want to put the puck into my mug to load from it. Perhaps this won't be the case for the rooney, but only time will tell But enough for now!!

So, good luck, and sorry again for making this post way too long

For a quick and easy possible fix, Try some distilled or purefied water.
Sometimes the local H2O just doesn't get along with the soap.

shyrlock said:

For a quick and easy possible fix, Try some distilled or purefied water.
Sometimes the local H2O just doesn't get along with the soap.

Click to expand...

That's what my problem was.
Couldn't get lather to last for more than a couple min. with the tap water.
Tried some bottled water and WOW! what a differance.
I can lather my face now --then--strop my straight razor 25-50 times and still have a good lather to shave with.

I'm no expert, but my brush was my first purchase in my wetshaving kit and making lather is always, for me, well, fun. I started with Proraso soap with okay results, then I got a puck of Mama Bear's soap and found that it was way easier. But three days ago I found some KMF cream and tried it... I don't know if it's just this cream but man it's easy to lather. It seems to take a bit more water. The point is, while you experiment with soaps, buy some cream so you can alternate. Also, I usually shave after a shower, and take good care not to open the door, to keep some humidity in the air. The dry air of winter really dries everything way too quickly for me. Just my 0.02$CAD

You could also watch Mantic's videos on youtube.

This worked very well for me.