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Kitchen knife sharpening tutorial

OK gents, who can teach me how to properly sharpen a kitchen knife? I've got all of my Japanese water stones, and I can put a sharp edge on a dull knife, but it doesn't last very long. I know that is mostly due to the metal, but I feel that it is also due to technique.

1) Do you always lead with the sharpened edge, or do you sometimes lead with the spine of the blade?
2) How can I properly form a burr? I haven't be able to do that yet.
3) What angles do you use (I've used a 22.5° main angle, with a second angle at around 17°, although I'm doing this free hand.)

Surely someone around here has found a video with decent information on it. I was shocked by how many poor, awful techniques I saw people using in some of the online instructional videos.

Any help is appreciated, and I'm sure that there are many others that would be interested as well.... I'm just trying to get a good technique down on my old stamped Henckel's blades before I buy a nice set of forged, real kitchen knives.
 
OK gents, who can teach me how to properly sharpen a kitchen knife? I've got all of my Japanese water stones, and I can put a sharp edge on a dull knife, but it doesn't last very long. I know that is mostly due to the metal, but I feel that it is also due to technique.

1) Do you always lead with the sharpened edge, or do you sometimes lead with the spine of the blade?
2) How can I properly form a burr? I haven't be able to do that yet.
3) What angles do you use (I've used a 22.5° main angle, with a second angle at around 17°, although I'm doing this free hand.)

Surely someone around here has found a video with decent information on it. I was shocked by how many poor, awful techniques I saw people using in some of the online instructional videos.

Any help is appreciated, and I'm sure that there are many others that would be interested as well.... I'm just trying to get a good technique down on my old stamped Henckel's blades before I buy a nice set of forged, real kitchen knives.


Chris, there IS a guy in Midlothian that sharpens knives, I haven't gone to him yet, but will soon. I don't have his number since I am at work, but I think he is in the phone book. BUT that Dave guy in the thread linked earlier, is very inexpensive for non-Japanese knives.
 
Thanks Scotto! I don't know how I missed that in my search.....

Chris, there IS a guy in Midlothian that sharpens knives, I haven't gone to him yet, but will soon. I don't have his number since I am at work, but I think he is in the phone book. BUT that Dave guy in the thread linked earlier, is very inexpensive for non-Japanese knives.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm more interested in learning to sharpen them myself, but I will look into the knives available from Dave in the other thread... BTW, it's George, not Chris...:biggrin:
 
You know what, I'm getting you confused with Sabledog, I thought he was the only other member from Richmond....sorry, George.
 
korin.com has a knife sharpening tutorial dvd available which is highly regarded on the kitchen knife forum on knifeforums.com. Other than that, it's just practice and practice with constant pressure and angles. What grit waterstones do you have? Also if you are using fine grit waterstones, then traditionally you won't need those diamond-layer honing steels people seem to love, or even the ceramic honing steels. You would just need something hard (but non abrasive like a glass rod or a standard soft-metal European steel) to realign the edge now and then.
 
I've got all of my Japanese water stones, and I can put a sharp edge on a dull knife, but it doesn't last very long. I know that is mostly due to the metal, but I feel that it is also due to technique.

if you're putting a good edge on your blades (and it sounds like you are) but it's not lasting, then sharpening may not be the issue. are you honing your blades regularly?
 
.......
Any help is appreciated, and I'm sure that there are many others that would be interested as well.... I'm just trying to get a good technique down on my old stamped Henckel's blades before I buy a nice set of forged, real kitchen knives.

Also I'm assuming you're not doing something like using a glass or marble cutting board.

Also if you're going through the time consuming process of using Japanese waterstones, you might as well get a harder steel kitchen knife and not the softer popular European chef knives (which in general does not hold an edge as long). At Korin.com, the Tojiro DP Gyuto knife is quite cheap and very popular at the 60-61 Rockwell hardness rating. At japanesechefsknife.com you can find other great knife values too like the Hiromoto series (I prefer the Aogami high carbon line, but it's not stainless).
 
Stamped blades are garbage.

What you need are a good set of forged knifes, like Henkels or Wustof, in their higher end range.(Wusthof: classic, Henkels: four star or the Twin Pro S) Make sure they are not the "international" versions made in Spain or China.

If you can get a good edge, you are doing it right. Proper honing with a quality steel is crucial as well, every time you pick up the knife, and when you put it away hit it with the steel.


Also, as jakuda mentioned, If you have a Glass or marble, or any hard cutting board/surface, throw them away, and get either wood(preferably end-grain)
and at a minimum, a HDPE board, IKEA sells some great ones for dirt cheap, and they take cuts very well. The board is supposed to take the damage, not your knives.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys.... I checked out the long thread that Scotto posted, with ouch's videos, and it looks like I've been doing everything for the most part correctly. Proper angles, proper motion, but I think my stones may just be a little too fine to form a proper burr in a reasonable amount of time. Mine lowest "grit" stone is 800, but as you know they vary quite a bit, and this one does feel smooth.

Turns out the biggest thing I was doing wrong was using the steel that came with my cheap set of Henckels (the ridged type of steel). I never realized how bad they are for the blades, and I guess using one every time I pull the knife out of the block would tend to dull it fairly quickly.

Now I'm just on a quest to find a smooth steel, or perhaps a ceramic.

Thanks again for the help gents!
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
Some general points-

Of the two strokes, the edge trailing is the more important. Relax the pressure on the edge leading return stroke.

22.5 degrees is on the obtuse side for cutlery. Having a secondary bevel can be a good thing if implemented correctly, but if you're a beginner it's a good idea to concentrate on a continuous bevel. If you want to use a single knife for all of your tasks, an advanced technique is to sharpen to a shallow angle near the tip of the knife, and to a wider (tougher) angle near the heel.

People obsess over their fine stones (I know I do) but they really only refine whatever work has been accomplished with the coarse stones. The edge is really set at the coarse stage (say, 220-500 grit) and everything past that point is polishing, and will be the first thing to go. The good news is that once a good coarse edge is set, you can get by with the easy to use fine stones for quite some time before having to start from scratch.

How long an edge lasts will depend on several obvious criteria-
amount of use
type of cutting board
type of cut employed (a cleaver pounding against a board will need to be resharpened a lot sooner than a slicer, which may never contact the board)
type of steel- the typical German knife found in almost any department store is nice, but doesn't have steel hard enough to take a really acute angle or to hold the edge. It doesn't have to be expensive to be good- a cheap, all carbon blade (which admittedly will need more care than you may be used to) can be a laser.


It's like getting to Carnegie Hall- practise, practise, practise.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys... but I think my stones may just be a little too fine to form a proper burr in a reasonable amount of time. Mine lowest "grit" stone is 800, but as you know they vary quite a bit, and this one does feel smooth. ........

Now I'm just on a quest to find a smooth steel, or perhaps a ceramic.
......

A 800grit waterstone is a perfectly coarse enough to reset the edge. You only need a coarser stone if you are going to drastically change the edge geometry. The whole "feeling a burr" thing is a sufficient but not necessary indicator that you are sharpening correctly.

Regarding a ceramic steel. Ceramic steels can range from an equivalent of 1000-4000 grit. If you are polishing off your knives with a 8000/10000/12000 stone, then you are basically undoing all your polishing work if you then use a typical ceramic steel.

Oh, and for now, just follow the current blade angle set by the manufacturer. Don't worry about changing the angles or setting a secondary angle near the end.
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
At japanesechefsknife.com you can find other great knife values too like the Hiromoto series (I prefer the Aogami high carbon line, but it's not stainless).


True, but the Hiromoto AS is one of the easiest carbon knives to maintain. It has some really terrific steel at the core, and is clad in (rather pedestrian) stainless. Only a few millimetres of carbon is exposed to develop a patina, giving the knife a beautiful tri-color look. With good to very good (but not breathtaking) fit and finish and some amazing steel at the business end, it's one of the best bargains going.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys.... I checked out the long thread that Scotto posted, with ouch's videos, and it looks like I've been doing everything for the most part correctly. Proper angles, proper motion, but I think my stones may just be a little too fine to form a proper burr in a reasonable amount of time. Mine lowest "grit" stone is 800, but as you know they vary quite a bit, and this one does feel smooth.

Turns out the biggest thing I was doing wrong was using the steel that came with my cheap set of Henckels (the ridged type of steel). I never realized how bad they are for the blades, and I guess using one every time I pull the knife out of the block would tend to dull it fairly quickly.

Now I'm just on a quest to find a smooth steel, or perhaps a ceramic.

Thanks again for the help gents!

Did you happen to get your stone locally?
 

Alacrity59

Wanting for wisdom
I find a 1000 grit water stone works perfectly for me. This grit leaves enough tooth so that I can easily slice a tomato and sharp enough for other tasks. One estimate of 22 degrees is putting 2 quarters under the spine of the knife. Another is to take a piece of paper and fold the corner to half 90 degrees = 45 then half again to get 22.5.

On another note, I do appreciate quality craftsmanship, but I do admit that I'm just as happy with a nice stamped knife such as a Forshner, especially for slicing as they are thinner.

My 2 cents.
 
True, but the Hiromoto AS is one of the easiest carbon knives to maintain. It has some really terrific steel at the core, and is clad in (rather pedestrian) stainless. Only a few millimetres of carbon is exposed to develop a patina, giving the knife a beautiful tri-color look. With good to very good (but not breathtaking) fit and finish and some amazing steel at the business end, it's one of the best bargains going.

I took advantage of the JCK holiday sale and got the 240 gyuto Hiromoto AS myself :)
 
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