Proof of a Better Shave?

[scruffyv]

Hi, all--

I am a newbie to the forum. As background, I have been frustrated with the quality of the shave I can get with commercial products for years, but I never took the time to look for something better. As I have gotten older, my beard hair has gotten wirier, is growing back faster, and I perceive that my fair skin is getting thinner. This has all added to my frustration. Sometimes I have imagined that the commercial razor industry is conspiring against me, reducing the quality of their blades to get the consumer to buy more often.

I have a job that puts me in a suit almost every day, and to me there is nothing worse than being dressed up for business and getting a lousy shave. Like a lot of guys, on the weekend I occasionally give my face a break.

So after a little research (including scanning this forum) I bought the following: Merkur Vision DE Razor, 100 Feather Blades on sale, Body Shop Shaving Cream, Nancy Boy Shaving Cream, and a badger brush. I just received the blades, got the Body Shop cream over the counter, and the rest of the kit arroves Monday. I cannot wait to get started. In the meantime, I have been using the Body Shop cream with my Sensor razor (after I went to two blades, I refused on principle to go to more. I have tried the three and four blade systems but the net effect is I cannot shave directly under my nose with anything more than a two blade system).

I have a question, which I hope some of you either can answer or just point me in the right direction.

When you write in on this forum that a particular cream, blade, or technique gave you a better shave (from a BBS perspective), how do you judge that with any kind of objectivity? For example, are there conditions under which a man's beard will grow faster on one day and slower on another, and could that cause a misjudgement as to the effectiveness of a particular method?

I understand (now, after reading this forum and other material) that there are many aspects of a "good" shave, including the smell of the cream, comfort factor of the blade against your face during shaving, and naturally, the "BBS" condition of your face after you are done. My question is, whether it is with commercial razors or traditional DE systems, has anyone "scientifically" studied the relative shave quality (BBS) of different systems and techniques? I mean there is a lot of terrific analytic dialog in this forum and elsewhere (I mean this quite sincerely) but has anyone who is handy with high powered magnification (perhaps someone who does testing for the cosmetics industry would have the right equipment) studied, counted the length of hairs after 24 hours, etc.?

For example, I honestly believe that my Sensor gives me as good a commercial shave if not better than all the 3 and 4 blade systems on the market, including the somewhat amazingly horrific fusion system. I shaved today with my Sensor and the Body Shop shaving cream, and I think it is a slightly better quality shave than when I use Edge gel. (I know the forum reviles the commercial goo but please go easy on me, I am a newbie and just getting started). I know for a fact that my skin feels smoother I think due to the high quality moisturizers in the Body Shop cream. But it is the closeness of the shave I am most interested in, and from that perspective I do think it is a slightly better shave.

For me, I am judging the quality of the shave based on how rough my face feels at 5 or 6 in the evening after shaving a about 6 in the morning. My beard grows so fast, that it is inevitable that I can feel roughness at that time, the only question is how much.

Typically in scientific method you try to stabilize all factors and variables to isolate the one area you are studying. So I feel good to be using just the high quality cream at this point and getting a slightly better shave. It is quite possible that this is just one of many contributing factors to the better shaves that forum members site.

Could the collective wisdom of the members of this forum render a judgement on the objective (BBS) quality of commercially available shaves?

I get a sense that with a good DE, particularly if it an adjustable system, you can get as close a shave as you want, but it is a delicate balance between comfort, cutting yourself, and BBS, that we are searching for. Since there are so many variables the search becomes less of a scientific exploration and more of a hobby, since the permutations are endless.

Anyway, thanks for your patience, in reading this newbie's thoughts, and I think there are one or more questions, or at least something you all might want to comment on, in the ramblings above.

Regards to all forum members, thanks in advance for any reaction or comments, and I will gladly post my reaction once the kit comes in and I start shaving the "right" way.

Scruffyv

[Jimmy Gee]

Wow, great post! I have asked myself many similar questions. I should preface that I am a newbie to this as well, so I am on new ground as far as wet-shaving.

In "life", I work in the quality arena and have a fair background in evaluation of perceived quality. That's what all of this is about - The Quality Of Each Shave. The issue becomes defining Quality. Dealing with shaving involves tangible and not-so tangible (objective / subjective) results.

I truly believe each day, or at least each group of days, that my facial hair grows a little different (primarily rate of growth). Couple that with the myriad of products available and the permutations are mind-boggling. Creating or observing objective understanding of a subjective subject is very difficult.

So, the bottom-line comes to your personal observations. You are different than I am, and different than other forum members, but on the AVERAGE similar to others in the same group. Posting and asking are key to guiding yourself along a path of progress towards the type of shave you desire. It's all about the process - don't judge by one event, but evaluate and improve over time. Continual progress should be your guide - assessed on a weekly basis of shaves and not just each shave.

JMTC.
Jimmy Gee

[birchhook]

I've wondered about this once in a while. I've considered shaving with one product on the left side of my face and another on the right, just to see if it's as different as I think it is.

But I haven't done this because: I'm getting very good shaves, and I really enjoy the experience. I find myself looking forward to the next time I get to use my brush or smell C&E sandalwood cream or lather some Honeybee soap. This takes the science out of the picture, because I enjoy it so much more while simultaneously getting, what I believe to be, better shaves.

[mdakin]

I suspect such scientific studies have been done by the industrial-scale shaving companies. I doubt their work has been published externally and I've not seen any such studies in my shaving web-research (I've not really looked around for scientific studies per se though).

I think in time you will be able to answer the questions you have by yourself. If you understand that it makes sense to repeat experiments, only change one variable at a time and keep some memory of past experiments/results you will get your answers relatively quickly (a couple of months perhaps).

I have been approaching shaving experimentally for about a month now using the DE exclusively and a couple of high-quality creams. Prior to that I used a Mach 3 at home and a DE on the road, both with canned foam without really thinking about it at all. I'm already beginning to understand solidly which blade is best for me, which cream gives me less irritation, and the good and bad of my technique. I suspect you will make similar progress!

Good luck!

-Mike

[rtaylor61]

My fingertips are all of the scientific research that I need. I know that when I use my DE or straight, with a quality brush and cream/soap, the end result is a good shave. My shaving den is my laboratory, and I experiment daily. Besides having a stubble free face at the end of the shave, I have spent an enjoyable time getting there. That's all the proof that I need.

Randy

[Steelforge]

It's all about feel for me, and the quality of the shave. I like to mix things around and when I find a combination that gives me a close comfortable shave I stick with it for a few days to see if it was a fluke. I think as my technique improves I am finding more combinations that work well for me. My main preference now is either a Merkur Slant with Feather blades, or a Merkur Futur with Derby blades. Both are really nice combo's for me, and will yield a close comfortable shave almost every time.

The creams and soaps I just mix around, picking the one I fancy on the day - I think today will be an AOS Lemon day, whereas yesterday was a Trumpers Rose day.

[Scorpio]

Well said Randy, let your fingertips do the research!!!

Rafael

[scagooch]

I've actually received compliments since starting with wetshaving!! Right in the middle of a job interview she blurted out unprofessionally "God your skin is smooth" She recommended me for a promotion but I didn't get the job. So wetshaving is paying off for me.

[scruffyv]

Thanks for all of your comments so far. Yes, I do plan to let my personal observation be my guide. One of the things that pushed me here was that I am I think a tough case-- very wiry very dark beard combined with very fair light skin. This also makes it a little easier for me to observe results without scientific equipment.

The amount of money spent on shaving worldwide must be staggering. If I was one of the major consumer product companies who made shavers, blades, I would spend a good amount of money understanding what made a better shave. Of course, since consumer goods is as much about marketing as having an effective product, I guess they would spend more on focus groups determining what a man would find to be "cool" as opposed to effective. I speculate that the primary driving force(s) in the commercial products is: does the system look cool; can someone shave very quickly and sloppily and not cut themselves while doing it; and can someone get a reasonably close shave. In that order. I think the multi-blade systems are popular because the number of blades decreases the pressure on each one, therefore giving the user the perception of less pressure on the face by an individual sharp object-- sort of like the folks who lie down on a bed of nails-- the space between the nails is so close the pressure is distributed. Apparently, the "tugging" effect is perceptively not as disomfiting as the "sharp object against your face" effect. And given that many folks leave themselves very little personal time in the day-- due to the ever expanding time starvation in modern culture-- I think this is why commercial shaving systems look and act the way they do.

However, I do think the prior poster is right, that all of this info is sitting on the shelf of one or more of the major manufacturers . . . and they will not share it with us, because it would expose how little of their product development is truly geared to giving us a better shave, and how much is based on other factors. Frustrating-- when a car manufacturer wants to sell cars, they expose how the engineering is innovative and well suited for the purpose. BMW, Subaru, and others have whole programs designed around communicating why their engineering is better. Yet all we get from commercial razor manufacturers is a bunch of baloney and multi-blade systems. Saturday Night Live, years ago, did a parody of a multi-blade system-- I think the parody had 4 blades. How many is fusion? Can any man shaving with Fusion not feel duped and ridiculous? Oh wait a minute, let me turn the vibrator on. There, that is much better!

Anyway, thanks again for the opportunity to share my thoughts. Any and all other comments are welcome! (That is the point here, isn't it?)

Regards, Scruffyv

[BroJohn]

Scruffyv --

Like many who are starting out, you're obsessing a bit much in your enthusiasm to get going. There probably isn't any (or much) 'scientific' information available to us. Most of the information is anecdotal, personal experiences, and the like.

Your kit is coming along. I'd recommend that for the next month, you just use your limited kit and acquire some comfort in using the basics. You'll acquire a 'comfort zone' with what you're doing in that time. You have a lifetime to read and learn here at B&B, pick up ideas from other wetshavers postings, and integrate these into your daily regimen.

Now you get to pamper youself, have great shaves, and enjoy a lifelong adventure!

Welcome aboard.

-- John Gehman

[jduffy]

Just about all the info you get here is anectodal at best and far from science. But it's what we have to go by. I read all of it with a grain of salt. I then try and make my best educated guess of what sounds like it will work for me. Some things I have tried and not liked and some things I've tried and absolutely loved.

Two things I can tell you about. One being Baster of California After Shave Balm is amazing. I read the reviews and they were spot on. Two being the four pass shaving method. I don't apply all of the principles yet but the shaving on an angle, particularly for my cheeks works briliantly. I can get a BBS with just three passes and oftentimes two.

I know what I'm doing is better than electrics and multi-blades because my face doesn't itch when the whiskers come back. I'm comfortable and that makes me so freaking happy, I can't even begin to explain it after years and I mean YEARS of bad shaves.

May all your shaves make you smile.

[mrob]

Asked another way, how good is good?

I teach research and understand the original poster's interest in empirical data, but this is shaving, not heart research.

If your face feels smoother after a particular combination of shave cream and razor, I'd say you have your answer, and knowing how many microns each hair on your face measures won't change your mind one way or another.

Its just shaving.

[geoff]

scruffyv,

You may want to consider getting the blade sampler pack also.

Although a great blade, I found at least, you really need to have your technique down to get an irritation free shave from a feather.

I am just a newbie myself but have found despite getting nice irritation free shaves from other blades the feather still brings up some bumps on my neck. This is certainly due to my technique and not a negative comment on the blade but I have found it nice to perfect with a more forgiving blade at the start.

-Geoff

[catatonic]

Thing is, the equipment descriptions can be accurate, but it's the shaver's skin that is the single largest variable.

Different faces need different blade angles, different cream/soap formulations, different shaving techniques due to grain, etc.

[scruffyv]

First, thanks again to all for your thoughts on how measurable a good shave is, and the consistent message-- which is basically, feel your face, judge the outcome individually, because shaving is an individual experience with lots of variables. Because of the individual nature, using some kind of scientific process to evaluate closeness, comfort, will only go so far. Point taken and thanks! And thanks for the product recommendations.

So my kit arrived on Monday, and so far I have used the Merkur Vision with Merkur blades and Body Shop Cream, Proraso, and (last night) Nancy Boy. I will look at the product review section and see if I have anything to add. Early fave is Proraso-- the Body Shop is very moisturizing and slick but lacks fragrance. The Nancy Boy Cream has a highly metholated pepperminty smell that I am not so sure I will get used to, and does not seem to protect from nicks as well. The Proraso is almost as moisturizing, protects from nicks, but with a much subtler smell. The Merkur blades feel about right for now-- I am looking forward to trying the feathers but am going to wait until my technique improves.

To the original point of the thread-- net effect of traditional shaving for me at this point is an adequate, not an outstanding shave. No where near BBS yet. A signfiicant amount of burning sensation on my face for a good long time after the shave. I am applying zero pressure and using 4 to 5 passes. I am going to give it some time.

I am beginning to understand that technique will now play a huge part in how good a shave I get. The Vision is a very heavy shaver and I am not so sure it is optimal for the awkward angles you need to achieve to use the 4 pass method. That combined with the super slick creams makes it feel like it is going to fall out of my hands. Maybe I should look for a lighter adjustable shaver just to see which one works best for me.

Lastly, there is one important impression as a newbie I want to share with the forum. The sensation of a single blade cutting the beard from your face is amazing. It is similar to when a barber uses a cutthroat straight razors to shave your neck, usually at the end of a haircut. It is a great and unique feeling.

I am enjoying this so far!

Thanks,

(no longer) scruffyv