Anyone have a Smart Car?

stevensj2 said:

+1.

The Smart Car is actually very safe. It has received 4 and 5 stars in all categories.

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I remember one of the Car shows (Top Gear or Fifth Gear) investigated this and found that while it was structurally very strong, it's small size meant that there were no real crumple zones to absorb energy in an impact. So, they deduced from the CTDs, while the cell wouldn't deform too badly your internal organs would.

These tests were carried out at approx. 50mph if I remember correctly.

mark3d said:

the smart car is not too small, other cars are too big

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I'll keep my 18ft long 2ton station wagon even if gas gets up to $25 a gallon.
Then again, I put less than 2k a year on it. I don't care how well a safety cage is designed, you are still susceptible to the effects of sudden deceleration/acceleration. When you have a collision with another vehicle,(as opposed to a concrete barrier) mass is your friend. It's simple physics. Lets forget about crumple zones, and such for the sake of some easy math.
If your vehicle is 1 ton, and you have a head on collision with another vehicle traveling at the same speed that is 2 tons, you are going to decelerate twice as fast as the other guy. Whats more, is he isn't going to stop immediately, you however are going to stop, and then reverse course for a bit. This is a perfect opportunity to bounce you back into the path of another vehicle, or a tree, or an embankment for a second impact. Of course, by then the airbags will already be spent. Even with crumple zones, and the like, it is still going to play out this way, albeit the "pinball" effect on the smaller vehicle will be diminished.

An object that is twice your mass, only has to travel half your speed to have the same inertia. For example, if I were in my Crown Victoria, and had a head on collision, with a smart at 50mph. For the driver of the smart, it would be like having a head on collision with another smart traveling at 100mph.

While these are vastly simplified problems, and I took a stab in the dark at the weight of a smart, the math doesn't lie. Of course how often do you actually have an absolutely dead even head on collision? I will make this prediction though, at anything other than parking lot speeds, a collision will knock the smart for a loop.


Even so, they are safer than a motorcycle, but I won't be in the market for one anytime soon. As we always say here on B&B YMMV.

goodsamaritan said:

I'll keep my 18ft long 2ton station wagon even if gas gets up to $25 a gallon.
Then again, I put less than 2k a year on it. I don't care how well a safety cage is designed, you are still susceptible to the effects of sudden deceleration/acceleration. When you have a collision with another vehicle,(as opposed to a concrete barrier) mass is your friend. It's simple physics. Lets forget about crumple zones, and such for the sake of some easy math.
If your vehicle is 1 ton, and you have a head on collision with another vehicle traveling at the same speed that is 2 tons, you are going to decelerate twice as fast as the other guy. Whats more, is he isn't going to stop immediately, you however are going to stop, and then reverse course for a bit. This is a perfect opportunity to bounce you back into the path of another vehicle, or a tree, or an embankment for a second impact. Of course, by then the airbags will already be spent. Even with crumple zones, and the like, it is still going to play out this way, albeit the "pinball" effect on the smaller vehicle will be diminished.

An object that is twice your mass, only has to travel half your speed to have the same inertia. For example, if I were in my Crown Victoria, and had a head on collision, with a smart at 50mph. For the driver of the smart, it would be like having a head on collision with another smart traveling at 100mph.

While these are vastly simplified problems, and I took a stab in the dark at the weight of a smart, the math doesn't lie. Of course how often do you actually have an absolutely dead even head on collision? I will make this prediction though, at anything other than parking lot speeds, a collision will knock the smart for a loop.


Even so, they are safer than a motorcycle, but I won't be in the market for one anytime soon. As we always say here on B&B YMMV.

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The other side of that is that in a single car collision, your car has to safely decelerate much more energy to protect your body. As mass increases with the square of speed, a little bit more weight means you're facing a lot more possible damage in a single-car accident.

On top of that, a ladder frame car won't out-perform a modern compact in absorbing energy, they simply aren't designed to. Even older cars with a great reputation for safety can be unsafe:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY[/YOUTUBE]



Anyway, passive safety is okay, but I'm more interested in a car that can stop, go and steer well enough that I don't get in an accident to begin with. Mainly because I prefer driving cars that are engaging to drive, but the article "How The SUV Ran Over Automotive Safety" shows how they can be safer, as well.

The Smart is great if you live in a big city and parking is at a premium; that is what it was designed for. If you're looking for a small, fuel efficient car and finding parking isn't a massive problem, there are many cars that are similarly efficient but have more space for stuff. Having the option to take your kids somewhere in the second car is worth a fair amount.

http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml

Spacegeezer said:

The other side of that is that in a single car collision, your car has to safely decelerate much more energy to protect your body. As mass increases with the square of speed, a little bit more weight means you're facing a lot more possible damage in a single-car accident.

On top of that, a ladder frame car won't out-perform a modern compact in absorbing energy, they simply aren't designed to. Even older cars with a great reputation for safety can be unsafe:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY[/YOUTUBE]



Anyway, passive safety is okay, but I'm more interested in a car that can stop, go and steer well enough that I don't get in an accident to begin with. Mainly because I prefer driving cars that are engaging to drive, but the article "How The SUV Ran Over Automotive Safety" shows how they can be safer, as well.

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I agree with you concerning single vehicle accidents. I have always logged a lot of miles as part of my work. I have averaged 70,000 miles a year for the last decade. In all the time I have been on the road I have been involved in exactly ONE single vehicle accident. I hit a patch of oil in the middle of a curve, just as it was beginning to rain. Needless to say I was caught by surprise, and lost control of the car, hitting a tree. The car folded up like a pop can, and had there been anyone with me, there is little doubt they would be dead. (Incidentally one of the emergency vehicles that responded slid off the road too, fortunately for them they were already slowing down looking for me, or else they might have been in the market for a new ambulance.

Every other wreck I have been in has been caused by a vehicle malfunction, or another driver. (I freely admit to a couple of construction site mishaps, which did not involve any other vehicles) I'll list a few examples below.

1992 Rear ended while in motion. I was just tooling along in my beloved 1960 F350, he was in an 80's charger. Apparently he was fiddling with something in the car and when he looked up it was to late. He got hooked under my trailer hitch, and we had difficulty separating the two vehicles. I lost $0.03 worth of spray paint. He needed a new doghouse.

1995 T-boned in the drivers side, on the front door, while pulling into a driveway. She was in a 93 Dodge Shadow, I was in a 76 Plymouth Grand Fury. She hit me hard enough that we both went into a ditch on the other side of the driveway. When my car was stopped solid by the other side of the ditch, she bounced back, across the driveway hitting a mobile home knocking it completely off it's blocks. She went to the hospital with airbag burns, and a broken arm. I didn't have a scratch, and actually drove the poor plymouth home, albeit with the wheel cranked nearly to 90 degrees while going straight. Apparently she was coming up on me fast and tried to pass on the left. Unfortunately for both of us, I was already turning left. (yes, my signal was on...) She hit me hard enough that we both went into a ditch on the other side of the driveway. When my car was stopped solid by the other side of the ditch, she bounced back, across the driveway hitting a mobile home knocking it completely off it's blocks.

1997 I rear ended a Thunderbird when the anti lock brakes malfunctioned on my Taurus company car. I put my foot on the brake to slow down from about 25mph, but the pump kicked on immediately and the car wouldn't slow down. This was the middle of summer, and there was no sand, water, or anything remotely slippery on the road. (I actually had time to lock up the parking brake and shift into reverse, but by then it was too late) Fortunately it only amounted a to a cracked bumper cover, and a bit of paint. To this day, I don't fully trust ABS.


2002 My 91 Crown Vic was hit in the passengers side front fender/wheel by a lady (with no liscense, driving a car that was in the name of some guy who had been dead for 3 years...) in a Festiva who was trying to pass me on the right, while I was making a right turn, on a two lane road with no turn/emergency lanes.

2002 (two months later) I was passing a slow moving dump truck (25 in a 55mph zone) Some guy tried to beat the dump truck across an intersection, and didn't see me. My Crown Vic knocked the rear wheels out from under his 92 Pulsar, pushed the rear door in far enough to rip the "B" pillar loose from the roof, and shattered every window in the car except for the drivers window and the windshield. Fortunately the driver was unhurt, but if anyone had been in the back seat... The only injuries I sustained were from the airbag. I drive my car over to the rollback so it would be easier to hook up.

2003 Rear ended at a stop light, in my 3/4 ton work truck by a guy in a Navigator. Other than a stiff neck, (i was leaned way forward with my head twisted at an awkward angle trying to see approaching traffic) I was ok. The guy in the Navigator, got a broken nose, and a ruined cigar...

2003 (4 days later) Side swiped by a pickup truck while sitting stopped at a stoplight. The driver ran, but I got his number... he got a visit from the sheriff or so I hear.

2004 Rear ended yet again, while in my 3/4 ton. This time I was stopped waiting to make a left turn. A drunk ran the stoplight at the top of the hill and picked up a bit of speed before slamming into me at the bottom of the hill. I was shaken up, but other than a bump on my head from a metal folder I had on the dash, I was uninjured. The drunk was in a toyota corolla. He hit me with enough force to hit my truck (loaded till it was squatting in the rear) 30 feet from a dead stop. He broke the windshield with his face, and was in the hospital a long time before he could even appear in court.


Fortunately other than some parking lot dings, that was the last one of note, and that was nearly 300k ago.


Why did I write all this? The point I want to make is that in all my travels, I have only been involved in one single vehicle accident. If some goober hadn't let his used motor oil dump out in the back of his truck I wouldn't have had that one. I would much rather take my chances with a vehicle that offers protection from a drunk driver, than one which best protects me if I ram into stationary objects.

As for collision avoidance, slowing down and/or actually paying attention to the road will go much further towards preventing a wreck, than improved stopping distances and maneuverability. A stopping distance of 0 will do you absolutely no good, if the guy whose driving it, never sees you because he's emailing someone on his blackberry.

crazycliff200843 said:

tblech,

Are the new engines diesel electric? Meaning that the diesel engine generates electricity and an electric motor turns the wheels?

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Except for a few hybrid engines that are in experimental phases and the electrics that run on the NEC all engines produced by the two major manufacturers, E.M.D(GM) and General Electric, are diesel electric..

Sorry I didn't see this until just now...

Right after the Smart cars became available for sale nationwide, I happened to see one at a local filling station.

Now, about that filling station. It is part of a grocery store chain. The store gives discounts on the price per gallon of fuel dependant on how much you spend there. And it is possible to accumulate enough of a discount that your fillup is free. The limit is 30 gallons for a single fillup. Because most vehicles don't even come close to holding that much gas, many people take along a gas can and put the "extra" in it. Not supposed to do that, but the clerks never try to stop it.

A Smart car holds what, about 11 gallons worth? Well, there was the guy with 4 five gallon gas cans, which he filled after filling the tank of his Smart. But it got funny when he tried to load them into the back cargo area of his car, they wouldn't fit!

Obsessed said:

I've thought about it, as well as a (gasp) scooter, but I want something I and my wife can use in cold or wet weather. (We both take the train into work.) Right now we're a one-car family, and we're approaching the point where we just really feel we need another one.

It's funny how life changes. Three months ago I was living in NYC with no car, and here I am in the market for a second.

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Please don't tell us you're riding the Long Island Snail Road!

_JP_ said:

Well, there was the guy with 4 five gallon gas cans, which he filled after filling the tank of his Smart. But it got funny when he tried to load them into the back cargo area of his car, they wouldn't fit!

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Hmmm. How did he drive the empty cans to the gas station? Aren't they the same size when they're empty?

Obsessed said:

I've thought about it, as well as a (gasp) scooter, but I want something I and my wife can use in cold or wet weather. (We both take the train into work.) Right now we're a one-car family, and we're approaching the point where we just really feel we need another one.

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I don't know about your situation, but I believe you can get a more practical car, that gets as good as gas mileage or better, than a smart car.

I've always liked the VW Golf TDI. I think it gets 57 MPG on the Highway, but I could be wrong. Of course, the cost of diesel has skyrocketed these last few years.

ouch said:

Hmmm. How did he drive the empty cans to the gas station? Aren't they the same size when they're empty?

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An empty plastic gas can is a bit flexible and can be squeezed into a smaller space. Or, he bought them in the gas station's store.

He eventually put the 4th can in the front seat.

I've heard a lot of "wouldn't want to be in a crash in one of those" ever since the Smarts hit the market. It kind of amazes me in a way, because I never hear that comment about riding motorcycles, which have no crash protection at all.