SOTD: 2011 Haichao Lincang Sheng - Haichao is not a company I had drank much tea from. They apparently export a lot of puer teabags to Europe, but also make cakes in China. This cake was typical cheapish lincang ($10 range). Didn't really have much going on. Typical flowery sort of material, that will likely be in trouble in a year or two ( I don't think these age well at all) Not much in the way of huigan or throatfeel or anything in that realm. Even with the low price, I'd probably look elsewhere.
SOTD- sheng of the day
- Thread starter ouch
- Start date
Without saying anything material about JakubT's experience...
Legit Mahei gushu from 2004 is almost certainly not obtainable at $95. A broadly good Changtai from that era is $84 @Red Lantern Tea. In any event, the yiwu plantations around that area are generally pretty darn good at delivering good tea, and there are (were) lots of cheap Mahei teas around--MarshalN was pretty fond of one of those, from 2004, and it was really cheap in 2010. http://half-dipper.blogspot.com/2010/08/2004-huji-xingshunxiang-yiwu-mahei.html
I had a more indifferent session than JakubT with XZH Zhangjiawan 2011 brick today. Nice enough, and that's it. Does make me interested in Zhangjiawan, because the broad character of that area appeals to me more than the traditional areas close to Yiwu town.
Legit Mahei gushu from 2004 is almost certainly not obtainable at $95. A broadly good Changtai from that era is $84 @Red Lantern Tea. In any event, the yiwu plantations around that area are generally pretty darn good at delivering good tea, and there are (were) lots of cheap Mahei teas around--MarshalN was pretty fond of one of those, from 2004, and it was really cheap in 2010. http://half-dipper.blogspot.com/2010/08/2004-huji-xingshunxiang-yiwu-mahei.html
I had a more indifferent session than JakubT with XZH Zhangjiawan 2011 brick today. Nice enough, and that's it. Does make me interested in Zhangjiawan, because the broad character of that area appeals to me more than the traditional areas close to Yiwu town.
Today brings me 07 Xizhihao Dragon Phoenix. 6.8 g left of a sample I got. I enjoy this very much. Sweet honey scents mixed with a rustic hay. A nice amber color.
SOTpastcoupleofdays:
2012 Spring Nannuo from Mr.Ma (?) - The material from 70-90 year old trees. This blend had a large amount of tips and big strength. It really hit my stomach hard and I was surprised at the power. Overall, it had a lot of interesting things going on - staying power, throatfeel, and strength were all good for the price. I think it has good aging potential (who knows, just a guess)- I could not drink it often right now though.
2011 Dayi JinDayi I broke off about 50g from a cake I bought and this was the last 10g before I say goodbye to this cake for a few years. (or at least a year) I like this tea more and more. I wish I would have gotten some more when the prices were around 200 RMB. The current price is a little rough, but I can see this tea aging into something special. The session also lasted 15+ steeps, maybe I was at 12 grams, but it really has a lot more backbone than most menghai productions from recent years.
2010 Taochaju Nanuo Sicang - This was to recalibrate my senses after that strong spring 2012 tea. Enjoyable session
2012 Spring Nannuo from Mr.Ma (?) - The material from 70-90 year old trees. This blend had a large amount of tips and big strength. It really hit my stomach hard and I was surprised at the power. Overall, it had a lot of interesting things going on - staying power, throatfeel, and strength were all good for the price. I think it has good aging potential (who knows, just a guess)- I could not drink it often right now though.
2011 Dayi JinDayi I broke off about 50g from a cake I bought and this was the last 10g before I say goodbye to this cake for a few years. (or at least a year) I like this tea more and more. I wish I would have gotten some more when the prices were around 200 RMB. The current price is a little rough, but I can see this tea aging into something special. The session also lasted 15+ steeps, maybe I was at 12 grams, but it really has a lot more backbone than most menghai productions from recent years.
2010 Taochaju Nanuo Sicang - This was to recalibrate my senses after that strong spring 2012 tea. Enjoyable session
SOTD: 2008 Puersom Jingmai - haven't had this for awhile. Really enjoyed it today. Relative to my memory of the tea, it was more aged, not as overpoweringly strong in flavor and more like a typical Jingmai. It reminded me a bit of the 2001 HeShiHua Jingmai. I drank it over the course of a few hours so didn't really notice the qi. (Note: I really like good Jingmai teas, which are not to everyone's taste.) And I admit to liking the taste of puer as well as the qi (a noted blogger made the same admission recently.)
After some retasting, I agree that it's a mixture of old trees and younger trees, rather than pure gushu. I'd even say that less than a half is old trees.
On the other hand, I'd be careful about "almost certainly" and that sort of things - I'm not sure how credible and omniscient your sources are. That Mangzhi you did not believe was rather purely old trees (albeit cut, I do not taste any significant difference; taste, mouthfeel and energy were sure there). Or, Sunsing has 2004 Shi Kun Mu Yibang for $130 and it's not a bad price. Chawangshop has/had (imo better) 2004 SKM Yibang for $85 and I do not see why Yibang should be way cheaper than Manzhuan...
To use this example in another way, when excellent Yibang/Manzhuan (or Yongpinhao of 2003 was also about $90), which are all more aged can cost around $90, why not Mahei? Of course, you could argue that you ment "pure gushu can't be had for $90". However, are there any pure gushus pre-2005?
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Picking apart all of that...would be a major blogpost. Suffice to say that I stand by my previous assertions, and that one could follow any number of threads. Why Yongpinhao, for example, could be had for $90 is found in both english and chinese, if one cares to link things together and make inferences. If one makes ventures into both english and chinese, one can easily understand that genuine gushu Mahei is, for all intents and purposes, mostly not available to peons. Mahei is *the* traditional Yiwu flavor. Guafengzhai and other places close to the Laos border have since outpaced it in cost--but that's almost entirely because they have more and healthier gushu big trees. GFZ also ages better, in my book. The Mangzhi is priced less than what old tree Mangzhi would honestly be sold at. Given the nature of the puerh marketplace, I will make the inference that it's not gushu. Repeated past history has shown that it's wise to do so. However, that has little bearing on whether it's a good value.
My "sources" are the whole of the internet. Good luck.
My "sources" are the whole of the internet. Good luck.
Good enough, possibly excepting the sources. As Chawangshop is not a reseller of online stuff, why could not they have lower prices than some other stores?
Same with Finepuer/sampletea - some of their teas are really underpriced for various reasons. If they appeared as a new store, having these underpriced teas, would you be similarly disinclined to believe their integrity?
I think that both stores sometimes do sell things lower than what is an "honest price"... And they do have some problems too (I do not want to seem like making a saint of Chawangshop/Finepuer/Sampletea, I'm talking about the better stuff, not about the worse stuff - they both offer things which do not appeal to me).
Seems to me like you're, in general, putting a great importance on what people tell you. As much as I admit that hearsay is a good indicator on what to experience and what not, it seems to me that if you want to tell something to others, it's preferable to have the real experience.
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I'm pretty sure neither of you are hiking around the mountains buying directly from the villagers...
I am simply not going to lose this argument (if I actually took the time to argue). As for the tactic of arguing that a lack of direct experience means lack of qualification--I don't think any historian would buy that sentiment, and neither would any scientist! Would they dismiss plate tectonics just because nobody's around long enough to see it happen? Moreover, a trip to Yunnan and visits to tea plantations won't make me any more of an expert than anyone else.
I am not going to lose this argument because everything I've said is backed by multiple sources either directly or indirectly. It's not worth my time to argue with people who try various flavors of 'nuh uh'. Isaac Asimov said this: “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” JakubT, you really do need to provide more of a credible awareness that you know what you're talking about. For example, when I say that "well, old tree tea from Mengla costs more than two of those xiaobings per kilo", well yes, it's possible that Chawangshop could sell it for less than said prices, for a variety of honest reasons. They could cut the profit margins razor thin. They could be using unpopular trees, or not the best of maocha. Alternatively, you could say that I'm wrong about the prices and make an assertion that it really costs XX, backed by nothing or something, but it's something I at least could be bothered to go back, find online price sheets and give you links. Just telling me I don't really know anything is a nonstarter.
About Mahei--flat out, all the good gushu is spoken for, and the rest of the grades are doled out under monopoly conditions, just not as blatant as ChenShenHao. Again, there are many partial sources out there, and PuerhshopJim gave the most direct evidence. It's possible that some teashop got their hands on Mahei in 2004. What's very unlikely is that people wouldn't know straight off that it's the good stuff and bid it to the stratosphere. There are *very* few gushu Mahei of that age for sale out there, and by and large, you can't buy them particularly casually. You can't buy the '06 Sunsing Mahei, for example, and broadly speaking, bona-fide old tree anything 2006 (even if it's only a fraction of the maocha) and before is more than about $70. We are talking about a Mahei that costs less than one half of what a Dayi generic Yiwu from 2004 does, and slightly more than a generic quality Changtai. If there was a fart's chance of genuine-ness, it would be an awesomesauce deal, and thus falls under the heuristic of "if it's too good to be true..."
I am not going to lose this argument because everything I've said is backed by multiple sources either directly or indirectly. It's not worth my time to argue with people who try various flavors of 'nuh uh'. Isaac Asimov said this: “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” JakubT, you really do need to provide more of a credible awareness that you know what you're talking about. For example, when I say that "well, old tree tea from Mengla costs more than two of those xiaobings per kilo", well yes, it's possible that Chawangshop could sell it for less than said prices, for a variety of honest reasons. They could cut the profit margins razor thin. They could be using unpopular trees, or not the best of maocha. Alternatively, you could say that I'm wrong about the prices and make an assertion that it really costs XX, backed by nothing or something, but it's something I at least could be bothered to go back, find online price sheets and give you links. Just telling me I don't really know anything is a nonstarter.
About Mahei--flat out, all the good gushu is spoken for, and the rest of the grades are doled out under monopoly conditions, just not as blatant as ChenShenHao. Again, there are many partial sources out there, and PuerhshopJim gave the most direct evidence. It's possible that some teashop got their hands on Mahei in 2004. What's very unlikely is that people wouldn't know straight off that it's the good stuff and bid it to the stratosphere. There are *very* few gushu Mahei of that age for sale out there, and by and large, you can't buy them particularly casually. You can't buy the '06 Sunsing Mahei, for example, and broadly speaking, bona-fide old tree anything 2006 (even if it's only a fraction of the maocha) and before is more than about $70. We are talking about a Mahei that costs less than one half of what a Dayi generic Yiwu from 2004 does, and slightly more than a generic quality Changtai. If there was a fart's chance of genuine-ness, it would be an awesomesauce deal, and thus falls under the heuristic of "if it's too good to be true..."
Got into work this morning and decided to continue brewing the leaves I'd started yesterday to see how it worked out. I'm really pleased I did!
2007 Xiaguan 9833.5 from a 100g tuo. Compression seems pretty high - it's tough to get pieces off the cake. Early infusions had some greener notes. Brew is a nice golden yellow colour and these later infusions have been sweet and mouth watering on the finish. Very short infusions seem to be the key with this one.
2007 Xiaguan 9833.5 from a 100g tuo. Compression seems pretty high - it's tough to get pieces off the cake. Early infusions had some greener notes. Brew is a nice golden yellow colour and these later infusions have been sweet and mouth watering on the finish. Very short infusions seem to be the key with this one.
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/chupa-chupa.html
wanna play with me some more?
Got damn people, I might not be a certified genius or an academic superstar or nothing, but I am not a lightweight. And fdrx, *read* the link thoroughly. Just so we don't have more idiocy. And right now, I'm furious over the latest school shooting. I have no patience for people who think they can trip me up.
wanna play with me some more?
Got damn people, I might not be a certified genius or an academic superstar or nothing, but I am not a lightweight. And fdrx, *read* the link thoroughly. Just so we don't have more idiocy. And right now, I'm furious over the latest school shooting. I have no patience for people who think they can trip me up.
Can we all calm down and enjoy our tea?
I did not say you are not qualified - I know that you know a lot. It just seemed to me, that you often present things as "solved problems", despite not having enough direct experience, basing your "solution" on what others toold you.
Agreed, historians, nor certain scientists would buy that. Historians, because they simply can not experience certain things. And for other sciences, the situation is quite different. If you take a set of axioms and build a theory upon it, you can more or less cite previous "proofs". But just look how much effort is put into proofs and evaluations in research papers. You do no such thing to back your statements up.
However, in matters of taste, direct experience is very much possible. I do not say that it's wrong that you say what others told you - it's certainly valuable. But sometimes, I feel that your posts sound a lot more assured than they are.
Geez, don't put words I did not say in my mouth. I never said you don't know anything. I don't think anything like that. I do not know you nearly well enough to say anything than shallow opinion, which I gave.
To lend an example, let's have a matter with unknown answer. E.g., you say that complexity classes P and NP are not equal (which is what most people believe), I do not have to prove that they are. If I see a mistake in your thinking/argumentation, I do not have to prove the negation of your statement to prove you wrong.
You say that "there are". Where? On the internet? If so, how is that relevant? If Chawangshop does not buy via internet, why could they not get things which are not available via internet?
