a thread getting political about political threads, it's like a coffee table book about coffee tables....
okay, always two sides, there are. I have been known, a few times, to post in political-oriented threads, not because I am a political guru, far from it, but because A) I want to know more about someone else's view, or B) try and correct a skewed view of a belief I hold. Generally, comments that fall under "A" almost always comes off as gentlemanly and respectful, whereas "B" has a tendency to be viewed as ungentlemanly, argumentative and disrespectful. In my attempts to participate in these threads with the political heavyweights like Dr Mike, Jazzman, Scott, Bow, and several others, I have never made a comment intending to be controversial, although I'm sure it can come off as that when read in an inflectionless, non-verbal non-emotal communicative portal like a web forum. I have caught some of those times I've written something that sounds that way, and have immediately edited it and apologized to anyone who may have read it. I have recieved positive feedback from folks that share my beliefs, as well as those who are on the opposite end. Some folks are able to battle tooth and nail and remain professional and civil, go out afterwards for trip to Starbucks, figuratively speaking of course. These are not the issue, and usually when these handful are expressing their views, it's pretty impressive what gets said, and how, and that threads aren't locked. There are others, just as rabidly steady in their views that are a bit less civil, and may take a jab from user A at user B as a personal attack and jump in, when A and B may be the two old geezers that meet every morning at McDonald's for breakfast, calling each other a lousy bass turd and some beach (read between the lines), and show back up everyday with no problems. It's not fair for the mods to have to try and weed this out, and it's not fair for mental midgits like me to be void of the opportunity to learn why someone whose thoughts differ mine are that way.
Side 1: I'm a member, I'd like to read all sorts of commentary, and not be limited to what I can read except by my own standards, i.e. the radio example - lot's of stations on the radio, I skip the rap and r&b, go to classic rock, K-Love or Paul Harvey, etc.
Side 2: I'm a mod, I want everyone to have the opportunity to discuss whatever, but like the radio example, even everyone can choose to change the channel, what's aired at anyone moment shouldn't be offensive and derogatory to anyone passing by.
Tough call, but just like in the political threads, we don't need to get to a point where the governing body needs to jump in, we need to take stock of where we're at and what we're doing, and bite our tongue (err, fingers?) if need be. I've done it several times, and several times wish I had. Let's put on our big boy drawers, toughen up, but be sensitive, stand for what we believe but don't be a jackass about it and PUT A HELMET ON!!!!
just my 0.000030004021194 cents, and I owe you change
After Monday and Tuesday, even the rest of the week goes W T F
If I am not one of the 10, then I am deeply hurt! (I feel like one of the Final 5 - reference for all you frackin' BG geeks out there)
No, but in all seriousness, I read through this thread yesterday and waited to really get my head around what I thought on it. These are they, in no particular order of importance:
1) What the mods choose to do is entirely within their prerogative. If they want to completely ban all political and religious topics, that is their right. I have always maintained that, and have always stepped back when told to (there have been a few times).
b) I hope political and religious threads don't get banned. I know, this is a shaving forum. I know, it is not meant to be a place for political debate. But the Barber Shop has given me insight into people that I wouldn't have otherwise developed. There are people here that I feel that I could trust more, were I to purchase something from them in the B/S/T forum, or read an opinion from them on some other topic. And there are those I would avoid like the plague. And no, these don't fall along ideological lines. I would feel comfortable doing business with people like Jazzman, ScottS, BuffloBill, Bowcephalus, clooBie, BillEllis, and krawlx (this is not a complete list, just right off the top of my head). At least half of the people in this list share few political beliefs with me, but they have been good sparring partners, have been civil, and I enjoy the push and shove we engage in here. Others I wouldn't go near to save my life, and I won't list those, but not because they disagree with me (and some have even agreed with me), but rather because of how they have handled themselves.
iii) I have to say that the most upset I ever got on B&B was not in the Barber Shop in a political/religious thread, rather over on the B/S/T forum. I have also seen some pretty nasty threads over things like reviews of products. I realize that there is probably a higher percentage of locked threads dealing with politics/religion, but a person who is going to get nasty over those issues is likely to get nasty over others. Politics and religion don't make people mean to one another. I have been irritated over what I see as the rise of what I call "B/S/T Vigilantism," where sales are attacked, not because unfair prices are asked, but simply because it is not the price that a person would like something to be sold at.
IV) Regarding the issue of posting ratios to different forums, I think that this is a valid criticism, but I would hope it would be applied fairly. I have noted certain individuals who seem only to be here to ply their wares in the B/S/T forum. They sell nice things, but when you consider that 90% of their postings are only there, I would think this would also be contrary to the intention of B&B.
5) Maybe it is wrong to tell people to avoid political threads if they don't like them. Maybe people shouldn't only come here to engage in political debate. Arguing isn't wrong. Personal attacks, yes, but arguing? Honestly, nobody is forced to even look at the political threads. I never look at any of the threads in the Speakeasy, or anything dealing with tobacco. I personally don't drink or smoke, on religious grounds. I don't complain that, if I were to have known such topics would be discussed in a shaving forum, I would have never joined. Nor do I complain that other engage in such discussions on a shaving forum. Maybe those topics aren't hot button issues, but I just think it is childish to go complain about something that you would only know anything about by willingly clicking on that link. I have issues with people who constantly feel the need to be offended by something. I think that those of us who frequently engage in political discussions have actually done a pretty good job of shouting down those who were only there to cause trouble.
I do try to post in other forums. But there are only so many times you can say whether you prefer TOBS over GFT and T&H, so many times you can say buy the HD, so many times you can say, "remember, no pressure is the key t no irritation." When a shaving topic comes up that does not seem to be the billionth repeat of an oft heard question, and it is something I feel I have some knowledge in, I provide what little insight I have.
I hope I haven't angered anybody with my comments. I have always tried to be civil, and when I have overstepped, I have apologized (I hope, if there is anybody who still feels offended, let me know).
I've changed my mind. It's no longer my fault.
Alright - the over-dramatic posts, as if we've shot old yeller are getting to be a bit much. Nothing has been stopped/banned - other than REQUIRING you to act like gentlemen.
As stated, feel free to discuss politics - the warning was to inform all, if you get out of line - and we see it, we'll come in fast and hard. Some of you fellas will have no problem acting like adults... others aren't capable, will over-react, and will learn the hard way. It's merely a "heads up" that the aggressive, disrespectful, push my beliefs on others attitudes will not be tolerated.
joel (at) badgerandblade.com
All future outbursts will result in (at minimum) having your access to the barbershop permanently revoked.
One, two, ten, nor twenty rotten apples will ruin the barbershop, cause threads to be removed, etc.
Here is what's going to happen fellas. I've wiped a bunch of posts from this thread and sent out some PM's/Warnings. If you didn't get a PM, that doesn't mean you didn't act out or get out of line.
Moving forward for this AND ALL OTHER BARBERSHOP THREADS, if you intentionally act out to get a rise out of others, act in an ungentlemanly manner, attack a member or members, or in ANY other way require your posts to be moderated based on inappropriate behavior - depending on the severity, you will be either 1.) Be asked to leave 2.) Have your access/ability to read, and post to the barbershop turned off.
We will not be shy about invoking #2 with little provocation as the BarberShop is a privilege, not a right. Be a gentlemen - and there will be no issues, however it is of extreme importance I point out just because SOMEONE ELSE acts out, and provokes you - doesn't mean you should drop to their level and do similar. If someone acts out - voice your problems via the report a post feature (the little paper with a red dot icon to the right of the post number) and alert the mod team, and we'll deal with it as fast as possible.
joel (at) badgerandblade.com
Well, we had a pretty good 8 month run, but unfortunately it looks like this thread needs a bump as a warning, before we begin restoring decorum in the barbershop.
Before you post something - quickly re-read it and make sure it 1.) Is gentlemanly 2.) Doesn't insult a group of people (state, race, political party, etc) 3.) Is mature and 4.) Isn't going to piss off, irritate, insult, annoy or make others want to wring your neck.
We're all intelligent fellas here - this shouldn't be difficult, nor should it be inconvenient.
Let's keep B&B fun and classy.
joel (at) badgerandblade.com
I thought it would be worth bumping this thread again.
There are still threads being posted that incite some members. These type of subtle threads need to stop. I have received complaints from members telling me that this site has become adversarial. Right wing, left wing, moderate, independent, it makes no difference. No one wants to hear your views of whats wrong with government, religion, etc. There are other sites specifically for this type of discourse. We are here to have fun and enjoy the company of other gentlemen and ladies. If you can't play nice with your neighbors, don't post. It's that simple.