Honing Question

**waitasecun** · 09-02-2008, 03:16 PM

I have the norton 1000/220 and the norton 4000/8000....I am going to be getting a 4 sided paddle with paste on 4 sides...the first side will be 1 micron diamond paste, the next will be .5 diamond, the next will be .25 diamond, and the last will be chromium oxide.....Along with this, I will be obtaining a premium final strop with a canvas backing for final stropping......My question is this....is it ok if I skip a 12000grit polishing stone and just use what I am going to have or is it needed. 8000 grit is listed as being 3 microns and 12000 grit is listed as being 2 microns....so basically I am skipping 1 micron and just going directly to 1 micron and down...sounds reasonable to me...but I wanted someone else's opinion? THANKS IN ADVANCE, THE NOOB.......

**danstar250** · 09-02-2008, 03:31 PM

I will let someone with more honing experience than me answer this, but you may want to post your question in the Straight Shaving / Honing section so that it doesn't get missed.

**backpackerx** · 09-02-2008, 06:00 PM

Wow, quite the set up for a newbie. Very nice. A finishing stone is nice and some say they get a better and longer lasting edge with one than with pastes but really finishing pastes and a finishing/polishing stone do the same thing so you don't have to have a finishing/polishing stone. I go from a 8000k stone to 1 micron paste and then .5 Chrome Ox and it gives a serviceable shave. I wouldn't mind having a 12k or 16k stone but they aren't necessary.

Your above order is off though. Chrome Ox is .5 micron so you don't want to go from .25 diamond back up to .5 again. You can use either .5 diamond or .5 Chrome Ox, it'll do the same thing but the Chrome Ox will be cheaper.
You should check out the straight shaving section here. You'll get better responses. Good luck.

**backpackerx** · 09-02-2008, 06:07 PM

I might also add that what is needed depends on the razor you are honing. You'll want your first razor (If you haven't already gotten one) to be pre honed by someone with experience. Brand new razors while sold shave ready really aren't unless you purchase from a store that offers a honing service (usually a $15 to $20 add on). That'll give you the benchmark you are looking for when you begin to hone. With a pre honed razor you only need to touch it up on the pastes when it starts loosing it's edge every 2 weeks to 2 months or so. The stones wouldn't be needed for quite some time to bring back an edge that the pastes won't any more and then only the 8k would be needed. You'll only use your 1000/220 on really dull razors that need the bevel reset like ebay or antique store finds. The 220 grit would hardly ever be used or very very sparingly even for a really dull razor. That's so harsh you'd only use it for taking out nicks. Just FYI, you've probably already read similar info before.

**waitasecun** · 09-02-2008, 07:34 PM

thanks for the info guys, you pretty much confirmed my research....as for the chromium oxide being the final...even though its .5...I was told that it gives a softer, smoother edge while stopping at the .25 will leave it overly sharp.......in similar posts, someone said to do this setup.........but again, I'm a noob......so I dont know.....thanks again....

**netsurfr** · 09-03-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by waitasecun

thanks for the info guys, you pretty much confirmed my research....as for the chromium oxide being the final...even though its .5...I was told that it gives a softer, smoother edge while stopping at the .25 will leave it overly sharp.......in similar posts, someone said to do this setup.........but again, I'm a noob......so I dont know.....thanks again....

You are quite right. I personally use 0.25 micron diamond paste but find it uncomfortable to shave directly after stropping on leather. I usually finish on either the 0.5 micron CrO paste or on newspaper. Since I have a CrO strop handy, I usually use it instead of newspaper. Newspaper gives you the equivalent of about a 0.1 micron surface for final polishing.

**ouch** · 09-03-2008, 06:04 PM

Moved to a forum where you should get more responses.

**GsSixgun** · 09-04-2008, 09:21 AM

You have everything you need there for honing, as to the .25 diamond paste question, you will find that certain razors love it and certain razors hate it....
Each razor type seems to have a special combination that unlocks it's sharpness potential... Some like the lower grit stones more, then a few strokes on the upper grit to polish out, and .50 diamond and a .5 Cr to finish.
Others you might find want to stay in the higher grit for many more stokes, before they give up and get sharp, and then like a .50 diamond and .25 diamond to give a wicked sharp smooth shave....

I have found that razors group in families, first by grind type then by steel type...
In other words you will find that many of the big English wedges will have a similar sharpening combination... The full hollow ground German steel will all be quite similar etc: etc:
Keep in mind though the only rule that is set in stone, when honing razors, is that there are no rules set in stone when it comes to razors...As soon as you think you have it all figured out one will come along and throw you a curve.......

**professorchaos** · 09-04-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by GsSixgun

You have everything you need there for honing, as to the .25 diamond paste question, you will find that certain razors love it and certain razors hate it....
Each razor type seems to have a special combination that unlocks it's sharpness potential... Some like the lower grit stones more, then a few strokes on the upper grit to polish out, and .50 diamond and a .5 Cr to finish.
Others you might find want to stay in the higher grit for many more stokes, before they give up and get sharp, and then like a .50 diamond and .25 diamond to give a wicked sharp smooth shave....

I have found that razors group in families, first by grind type then by steel type...
In other words you will find that many of the big English wedges will have a similar sharpening combination... The full hollow ground German steel will all be quite similar etc: etc:
Keep in mind though the only rule that is set in stone, when honing razors, is that there are no rules set in stone when it comes to razors...As soon as you think you have it all figured out one will come along and throw you a curve.......

Just out of curiosity, what have you found to be the best combination for TIs? Love them once they are dialed in, up to that point they are a real punch in the nose.

**waitasecun** · 09-05-2008, 12:40 AM

thanks again guys, the information your giving me is great!!!!! THE NOOB

**GsSixgun** · 09-05-2008, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

Just out of curiosity, what have you found to be the best combination for TIs? Love them once they are dialed in, up to that point they are a real punch in the nose.

I find the TI's to be fairly straight forward on the hones and very even across the spectrum, approximately the same on all grits is what I am saying (I use a progressive honing system)
I would not use a .25 on a TI however I would finish that on Cr instead...
The only real problems with TI's are the warped ones, which I find totally unacceptable in a razor at that price point...

PS. I am not ducking the question as to lap counts etc: but they are of no relevance, even if we were using the same stones and honing the same razor....

**Seraphim** · 09-06-2008, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by waitasecun

I have the norton 1000/220 and the norton 4000/8000....I am going to be getting a 4 sided paddle with paste on 4 sides...the first side will be 1 micron diamond paste, the next will be .5 diamond, the next will be .25 diamond, and the last will be chromium oxide.....Along with this, I will be obtaining a premium final strop with a canvas backing for final stropping......My question is this....is it ok if I skip a 12000grit polishing stone and just use what I am going to have or is it needed. 8000 grit is listed as being 3 microns and 12000 grit is listed as being 2 microns....so basically I am skipping 1 micron and just going directly to 1 micron and down...sounds reasonable to me...but I wanted someone else's opinion? THANKS IN ADVANCE, THE NOOB.......

You can definitely go straight from 8000 to the 1um diamond. Diamond paste is quite effective/aggressive, and will smooth out a 8000 edge in quick order.

I prefer my pastes on a hanging strop over a paddle strop, but that is my personal preference, I include it only as a reference for other things to try in the future for you as well.

Enjoy the world of straight shaving/honing/stropping/obsessing

**waitasecun** · 09-07-2008, 09:29 PM

thank you seraphim on your answer........I was thinking of buying the 42 dollar polishing stone from cs but if I dont need it, then I not getting it.....I am actually still waiting on buying my strop from TM....I want the artisan latigo model of his.....He is putting it out mid-september........I have already purchased his 4 paddle strop and is what I will be using with the pastes........his paddle strops are quite large and should do nicely with the pastes.......Thanks again for your input.......THE NOOB

**waitasecun** · 09-07-2008, 09:32 PM

Also, someone mentioned stropping on newspaper, how do you do that.....what is the newspaper on top of? Just curious on how exactly that is accomplished....thanks......

Utopian · 09-11-2008, 07:53 PM

I usually wrap it around my chinese 12K, which is actually kind of ridiculous given how heavy it is. I just got into the habit of it, probably because it was in front of me when I first tried it and I just got into the habit of it. I would say that you can put the newspaper on any flat surface. I use 4-5 sheets of newspaper to soften it a bit and use an extremely light touch.