First DE shave this morning...

[rusirius]

Well, long story short... I started a couple weeks ago completely shaving my head. (canned gel and fusion razor at the time). Somehow I came across the headblade and as I started looking for info on it, found lots of info on wet shaving. After learning more about it I decided to take the plunge!

Currently my arsenal contains a merkur HD classic. Taylor avacodo cream, and various (almond, violet, rose, lime & coconut) soaps. A vulfix best badger brush. Alum block, and Pinaud bay rum aftershave...

My first shave was this morning... My results were... ummm... interesting...

I kept a wet towel on my face for a few minutes, then worked up a good lather with the taylor cream. Just used my hand to work up the lather, had no problems at all though, tons of nice lather in no time.

Lathered up my face and after giving it a minute or two to rest went to work with the DE...

I've read a fair amount of information about shaving with a DE, so I didn't feel like a complete newb, but again, it was my first actual shave.

I kept short strokes with very little pressure (perhaps not little enough). My first pass was with the grain.

Next I lathered up again for my second pass and noticed that my face was pretty sensitive by this point (the bristles of the brush felt pretty "prickly" while re-lathering)...

Second pass was cross wise, re-lathered again and then went against the grain....

Prior to this, for years I had used either multi-blade cartridge razors (usually mach3 and more recently fusion), or an electric razor (braun syncro recently). With the electric razors my face was always fine, but my neck would ALWAYS get a slight amount of burn and irritation. With the manual razors i might occasionally get a red bump or two of irritation on my neck, but generally not. (with manual razors I always shaved 1 pass with the grain, 1 pass against the grain). I've been using the manual razor for about a month now (fusion)...

Anyway, I noticed a couple of things... First, even with three passes my against the grain pass didn't seem to be cleaning it all up. I'd have to go over an area against the grain a couple of times before it felt like it was worked down pretty good. There were also a lot of places, especially around my neck that became a little painful. I'm not sure if my angle was wrong, if it was the blade, or what, but it was VERY grabby and didn't feel like it was cutting very well at all. I'd have to describe it akin to an old mach3 cartridge that had been used on my face for several weeks, then passed off to my wife to use for a few weeks on her legs, before passing it back to me to use on my face... Yeah, that bad...

Rinsed off with cold water and hit my face with the alum block. I noticed at this point that my face and neck were quite red and irritated, lots of bumps, etc.. (Glad I wasn't going in to work today, I looked a mess!!) Finally finished off with the aftershave and waited the next hour or so for my face to calm back down...

It finally did, literally after about an hour or hour and a half..

My face and cheeks are very smooth and seem to have gotten a great close shave. My neck not so much. Also, my entire face is still quite irritated several hours later. It doesn't bother me normally, but just rubbing it for a second (to see how close the shave is) seems to wake it up.

My first thought was that perhaps it was the shave cream (allergic) but first off, there is literally NOTHING that I know of that I'm allergic to, never had allergies of any kind. Second, I saw another post regarding allergic reactions to some creams, so I tested it on myself, rubbed a bit into my elbow as well as my side (seemed it would be more sensitive there). Neither had any sort of reaction at all even after a couple hours.

Never having used a DE and being used to the (harder you smash it the better it works) cartridge razors, I very well may have been using too much pressure on the razor. I sure didn't think I was putting much if any pressure on it, but who knows.

I suppose it could have also been the blade. I used a merkur blade, and as a test while I was shaving my head I tried a small spot using that blade, then changed out to a feather blade. The blade seemed to be much better then the merkur but again this was a completely different surface.

I really don't know what caused it, but now I just can't seem to wait till it grows out again so I can get in there and give it another shot with some revisions to see if it comes out any better.

So many creams and soaps I want to try... Easy to see why this can become an addiction so quickly... My only real regret is that it took me this long to discover it!!!

[Dennis]

Welcome to B&B. Sounds to me like you are allergic to the cream. A light touch and the blade would not cause that type of reaction. Try the same routine tomorrow with a different cream or soap and see what happens. You can also whip up some of the cream you used (you did not mention which that I saw) and put some on your arm and see if you get a reaction again. It is not uncommon to be sensitive to some of the essential (real) or fragrance (synthetic) oils in shave creams. I am not allergic to much of anything but I do show sensitivity to some of the high EO stuff.

Dennis

EDIT: I re-read. Talyors Avocado is mild stuff and should be zero problem. Go with what the others said. :)

[boboakalfb]

Welcome to B&B!

There are alot of variables and any one of them could be the culprit. I would suggest though sticking to maybe 2 with grain passes for a week. Then incorporate a cross grain pass. I wouldn't start going to the against grain passes until you have had some practice with the razor and with the cream. I whip the cream in a bowl so I have more control of the water/cream ratio. You may think the cream is ok but may have been a bit underhydrated. Check the lubricity by rubbing it between your fingers first.

I would suggest getting the blade sampler pack from letterk as well. This way you can try the different blades to see what works best for YOU. I am assuming you aren't using the blade that came with the razor...if so then toss it. They get bumped around and alot during shipping etc and may not be in the best condition.

It will get better...stick to it...get through the learning curve...you won't be sorry you did.

[Scotto]

If you are new to a DE, it will take some time for you to learn technique and your face to adapt. Until then, your shaves may not be perfectly smooth. Stick with it and you'll get there. You are correct about the pressure thing - watch it carefully and you may find you are pressing without thinking about it. Your reaction is a bit odd; try another soap or creme and see if you get the same effect. You may also want to investigate other razor blades to see if those work better for you.

And of course, ask questions and let us know how it goes.

[Chagidiel]

Hello and welcome.. Not being the pro - but getting there My guess is too much pressure and maybe the angle was off... I remember when I started DEing (?) I did a lot of scraping with following redness and aching.. Do a little work finding the angle shaving on your e.g arm.. And use NO pressure..
And do a read up in the FAQ. And dont give up, youll getting there, I might just take a while.. You are on the road to shaving-bliss

[Queen of Blades]

I have nothing to add to the excellent replies already given.

Just wanted to say welcome!

[PalmettoB]

Welcome aboard! As you can tell, you have come to the right place for great information. These folks know what's what!

[dustind]

Welcome. I'm still working on the neck/under the jaw area also. Keep at it.

[JMT]

I think you are allergic to the cream!!! I suggest you send me the tub for extensive testing.

[rusirius]

Well here's the update...

This morning I switched to the Classic brand lime & coconut soap. My face and neck was still a little irritated from the previous day, but was much better anyway...

After shaving this morning there was no noticible increase in irritation, however chaging soap wasn't the only change. I also went a little slower and tried to make sure I used no pressure at all on the blade (weight of razor or sometimes less only). I also limited myself to 1 with grain pass and 1 cross grain pass.

My shave is FAR FAR less smooth then yesterday (I already look like I have a 5oclock shadow), but again it all went down without any major irritation.

Tommorow I plan on doing the same procedure but going back to the taylor cream. If still no irritation then I'm going to assume it was just my heavy handedness and the fact that my face hasn't had time to adjust to the new method.

One thing I did notice about yesterdays "terror shave"... It was the closest, smoothest shave I've ever had... Even late into the evening there was still very little stubble. In fact, after all day I still wound up smoother then I usually am with a multi-blade. Even waking up this morning I had FAR FAR less stubble then is ever normal for me...

Hopefully if the taylor cream proves okay, I'll start ramping up little by little working back toward a 4 pass BBS shave while avoiding the !

Thanks again for all the advice so far, I'll keep you updated!

[Skyguy]

I'm a little late, but I'll bet you're correct crediting the problem to heavy handedness. If you think about it, it's become a habit to press hard, and habits can be hard to break. I'm willing to bet you've found the problem. Welcome, and keep us informed.

[russellnyc]

This sounds like my first DE shave, my first straight razor shave, my first straight razor shave with the last razor I bought, hehe. There's just a learning curve and you'll get the hang of it. You seem to be focusing more on pressure, so assuming you're dealing with that already, here are a couple other things to watch for:

1. Angle

Read a bit about straight razor shaving regarding blade angle -- they say you should be approaching the face at a 30 degree angle give or take 15 degrees. Now realize that the DE razor was designed around the turn of the century as an improvement of the straight razor. So, what you're doing when you shave with a DE is kind of like maneuvering a tiny little straight razor over your face. So, you want to maintain the same kind of angles with the DE, and unlike the Fusion you were used to, the straight and DE heads don't pivot with your face. So keep your wrists loose and try to follow the contours of your face maintaining those 15-30 degrees. There is little more painful than dragging a very sharp razor blade along your skin perpindicular to your face. But, that's what cartridge razors teach us to do by getting us in the habit of shaving with the razor handle parallel to your cheek. So, take a look at your HD and figure out the relationship between the direction of the blade and the direction of the handle. My guess is that it's somewhere around a 60 degree angle. If that's true, it means that the razor handle should be about 30 degrees off your face. If you're following what I'm saying, you'll see that it will be relatively easy to figure out the optimal blade angle with some practice.

2. Grip

Hold the razor down towards the bottom, don't choke up. This gives the razor head the proper leverage and allows the heft of the razor to do the cutting. If you choke up on the blade, it will be your unsteady hand that determines the speed of the cut. I always have better shaves when I remember this. Straight razor shaving with the wrong grip/balance is very difficult, and results in immediate cuts. Using a bad grip on a DE isn't quite as urgent a problem, but it will result in uncomfortable shaves.

3. Lubrication

Keep your face wet and lathered at all times. Don't be afraid to rinse off dry lather with hot water and lather up again. Don't do another pass over skin that doesn't have lather on it. It's so tempting to just go clean up that last little bit, and believe me I do this ALL THE TIME, and every time I do it, I pay for it with my own suffering. This is the hardest thing to retrain yourself to do when wetshaving. It doesn't matter how much you want to go over that patch again, or how moist it might still seem, just don't do it without relathering.

Good luck!

[rusirius]

Thanks for the reply russel. Some good tips there. After some further practice and examination I KNOW for a fact my angle was WAY to high on that first shave. I was definitely dragging the blade across my face rather then letting it cut through, that combined with too much pressure I think is what really tore me up pretty good.

Since I had so much stubble left from this morning's shave, I went ahead and did a practice run tonight with just two N-S passes.

One thing I noticed tonight, since the first shave I've been using soaps (only have one cream, all the others are classic brand soaps.)

I don't know what I SHOULD be seeing, but I'm almost positive this isn't right. My lather doesn't seem to be very good lubrication.

First, here's my current process with soaps...

1) Run water till it's hot
2) get some hot water in mug with soap
3) soak brush and bowl in hot water while filling sink
4) flick brush a little to get some water out of it
5) dump water out of mug
6) start rubbing brush on soap till it just starts to lather a bit
7) dump water out of bowl
8) work brush in bowl to build up lather

When my lather is whipped up it looks fairly thick, will stand peaks on it's own, etc. However, if rubbed between my fingers it really doesn't feel much different then plain water.

I'm assuming this is due to my water / soap ratio which I honestly don't have a clue about yet... ;) But tonight I'd whip, test, add a few drops of water, whip again, test again, more water... etc... It could have been my imagination, but it did seem that there were differences at some point, but at no time did it seem "slick" or really lubricating at any time. In fact, it almost seemed that the more water I added the stickier it got. After enough water it was pretty obvious there was too much water, rather large bubbles in it, peaks that wouldnt stand on their own, and the lather was pretty runny too...

Is too much water just as bad as not enough? Is there a "sweet spot" in the middle that I'm just missing? Any indicators or way to tell if I need more water or if I've passed that point?

I'm assuming while the classic brand is probably far from the best available soap out there, it should still get the job done...

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[rusirius]

Okay, here's this morning's update...

I switched back to the avacado cream this morning (Taylors). The good news is, I wasn't allergic to it, I apparently just mutilated my face that first shave.

After my first three passes (and still a fair amount of stubble remaining) I decided to go for broke and do the ATG pass too. Some irritation, couple bumps here and there, along with two nicks on my neck, but nothing major by any means. So the good news is, I'm definitely improving...

The bad news is, as pointed out above, there is SOMETHING wrong with my lathering technique apparently. Even with the cream my lather was anything but "slick". The razor would often stick, skip, etc...

I'll start a new thread regarding that, just so it gets more exposure...

[HawkeyeDave]

I cannot imagine how bad my face would have looked after my first DE shave had I not read all the great tips and advice from this terrific board.So much great information on here. I am trying to convert my cousin and brother-in-law to DE wetshaving. I can't repeat what I have been telling them about shaving the other way! They are both lurking so I figure in a few days time they won't be able to resist making the plunge!

[russellnyc]

As I can attest from my good shave today and bad shaves a few days ago, lather is hugely important. I've never used classic brand soap, and although I'm a fan of their site and products generally, I've heard really bad things about their soaps: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1593

That said, the Taylor's should probably be able to do fine for you -- it sounds like you are approaching lathering properly, could it be that you need some kind of pre-shave preparation? Try to shower beforehand and get your beard soft enough that when you run the back of your hand against the grain of your neck stubble it doesn't feel sharp. Hot shower is better even than a hot towel in my experience. If you have cetaphil or moisturizer, put it on your face before you get in the shower. Then lather up with your shower soap and leave it on for a bit. Basically, anything you can do to keep your face wet for as long as possible. I don't recommend oil or leaving anything (other than cetaphil cleanser) on your face when you start to brush the lather on it because that stuff will gum up your brush. Anyway, cetaphil is slimy and cleansing and I think it's a superb pre-shave prep. If you want to spend some money, you can also get some kind of pre-shave stuff from Proraso or elsewhere, but I'd avoid oils if I were you because I find that, while they comfort my face, they make it hard for me to shave.

For lathering, my advice would be to lather up on your face rather than in a mug, for now, I always have better results this way. Everything you're doing sounds correct. If you're using cream, take a finger full of it (since you're having trouble, be generous) and stick it right on the end of the brush. Then flick the tips of the brush hairs on your face back and forth for 2 minutes or so until you have a big santa claus beard. If you do this right, you won't be able to see your skin underneath it. Then, after you do the first pass on one side of your face, pick up the brush and "paint" on some more cream. Basically, keep your face covered with lather at all times after every stroke. This is my "gentle" shave for when I've butchered myself the previous day, and I find that it works great.

[rusirius]

Thanks again for the response russell, your advice has been invaluable. Regarding the pre-shave, would anyone recommend the Taylor Herbal pre-shave gel? How does that compare to the proraso pre-post cream? (I can swing by target and pick the proraso up locally...) The Taylor specifically states that it is made to not gum up my brush... The Proraso doesn't mention it... Or would anyone recommend anything else different? Russel recommends the cetaphil... I've never heard of it myself, but obviously it's some sort of facial clenser? Wonder if it's something I can pick up locally? How would this compare to the Taylor or Proraso?

I'll try working the lather on my face... What is curious is the very first day even though I got a horrible shave (wrong angle, too much pressure), I do recall the razor gliding smoothly. The only thing I know of that was different was that I wasn't using a bowl, just worked the lather in my hand. Maybe the bowl is somehow throwing me off.. ;) Who knows... I'll try it anyway.

[JMT]

I did not notice this the first time I read the first post. I know this is going away from the current direction of this thread, but did you end up getting the headblade? I am a head shaver myself and I think the headblade is a great product. I generally need to do some touch ups around my ears with a different razor, but I think that is mostly because I shave my head in the shower without a mirror. If you are trying to make a decision about the headblade, I would tell you to buy one.

[rusirius]

I did not notice this the first time I read the first post. I know this is going away from the current direction of this thread, but did you end up getting the headblade? I am a head shaver myself and I think the headblade is a great product. I generally need to do some touch ups around my ears with a different razor, but I think that is mostly because I shave my head in the shower without a mirror. If you are trying to make a decision about the headblade, I would tell you to buy one.

Yup, have been using a headblade for a couple weeks now... At first it was dicey... I almost gave up on it. No matter how light I was on it I seemed to be getting a lot more irritation then I was used to, and never got as close of a shave as I did with my M3 or Fusion...

Then I had a revelation... Just as I was about to write off the headblade for good I decided to try the sensor adaptor. (The new headblades all now apparently come with both adaptors, and mine was fortunate enough to do so). I went out and got a pack of sensor excel blades, chucked one up, and went to town...

MAN what a difference... Instead of feeling like I was trying to shave a ballon with a cutthroat, it felt like an M3 or Fusion all over again... I could take long gliding QUICK strokes, the blades don't clog up like they used to with the atra style blades, and I literally get the job done in half the time easy...

The info I found from headblade said that it was designed specifically for the atra2 carts and that the testing had found the sensor carts didn't work well. I guess it was only by the sheer number of people expressing interest in the sensor blades that they started including the adaptor. I couldn't be happier with it now...

I'm still going to go back in a month or two, after I've really gotten used to it, to try the atra2 carts again and see if it was just a matter of getting used to the headblade...

*edit* on a side note, this is actually how I discovered the joys of wetshaving... Searching through the web looking for reviews and info about the headblade before I ordered it.. Came across a lot of forums, including this one dealing with wetshaving and couldn't walk away without giving it a try... BOY am I ever glad I did... ;)

[rusirius]

This mornings shave was nothing less then phenomenol compared to earlier ones. The new bowl and kettle seemed to make all the difference in the world. The bowl is much heavier and thicker then my previous bowl, held the heat in much longer (was still REALLY hot to touch by the end of my third pass when I called it quits). Having REALLY hot! water for the brush, and to soak my face really made a big difference.

I honestly don't know if the Proraso pre-shave helped or not (as far as softening my beard), but I did like the feeling it gave after slathering some on and then covering with a steaming hot towel. VERY relaxing... Almost fell asleep again..

The lather, just like last night, was 1000 times better then anything I had produced before. The bowl I'm using is a different shape (much deeper and perhaps a little wider), but I can't imagine that making THIS big of a difference. I'm sure it has to do with the temperature of the bowl and brush. Whereas before I was probably hitting around 120 degrees, now it's closer to 180+ degrees. (Water comes to a boil, is kept in the somewhat insulated kettle until after I've finished shaving my head).

Anyway, the lather was very lubricating and creamy. It was also a bit dryer then I had been making in the past too. As a test I added maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of a teaspoon of water to it when I was done and re-whipped it. Still very thick and creamy, but the lubricity of it had definitly declined.

So in the end, Swamper and Greeny finally succumbed to the ways of Harold, and in doing so each gave just a little bit of their soul ..... OHH wait, sidetracked, wrong train...

So in the end, my morning shave was the best I've yet to have. I did start getting a little irritation around my neck during my third pass, so I decided to call it quits there and not go for the ATG pass. I attribute the irritation to my still "far from perfect" technique. I'm getting there though! ;)

Again I can't thank the members here at B&B that have given ideas, opinions, and advice enough... Without your support and tips, I'd probably have thrown the DE away by now thinking it was all just a crock.