Quick 'Hi' and a Couple of Questions...

[Mudweasel]

Ok, firstly 'Hi' to everyone - fantastic website (I just can't believe that there is so much information etc about shaving...!!!)

I've been DE shaving now for about 4 months, with (in general) good results. Bought my first DE (a Futur) before finding this site and have become reasonably adept at achieving a BBS shave with my limited technique (constantly improving, as I read/try ideas found on this site). However, despite generally getting good, close shaves, every now and then... probably 1-in-3 times I shave (I shave every other day) I do develop some irritation - not overly unbearable, but more than I would like and seeing as I don't get it the other times, more than I would expect.

So, this led me to try out a Merkur HD, given all the good things written about it, in the hope that it maybe a touch more forgiving for someone like me who is (even after 4 months) admittedly still on a learning curve. However, results with the HD haven't been as favourable as with the Futur... irritation every shave (with all four blades I've tried in my Futur - more on that in a minute) and the shave isn't as close. So, forst question is; has anyone else, especially those new to DE shaving, got on better with the Futur over the DE? With all the advice suggesting that the HD is the better bet for a newbie, I was surprised that it doesn't seem to work as well for me...

Now, onto the blades - like a lot of newcomers to this art, I tried out the 'freebie' Merkur blades that came with my Futur when I first got it... and promptly cut my face to ribbons .

Next, I tried some unbranded Israeli blades, that I also got as a freebie from the place I ordered the Futur from. These were ten times better... no nicks, extremely smooth and less irritation on 2/3 of the shaves.

Searching for a 'name brand' to use, I then tried out some Derbys... found them to give a smooth shave, but at the expense of a touch more irritation than the no-names.

Latest blades to be tries are the Crystals and they show promise... very similar to the no-names, but maybe need an extra pass to get me to the BBS stage...

So, the question regarding blades is really this; where do I go from here? I've a sample pack on it's way from westcoastshaving, but which do I try first, given that I've already tried the Crystals, Derby's and the Merkurs (God, I still cringe when I think of those)? I'm really after obtaining a BBS finish, as if I wet shave and leave 'bits' behind, that tends to cause more irritation... so I want something sharp enough to achieve that, without fear of cutting myself to bits. I know that over time I'll just have to plough through the whole pack to try it out, but any ideas as to the order, based on the limited info above, would be a great help (and maybe save me time and several poor shaves in the meantime...!!!)

For all those who've stuck with me to the end of this ramble - thanks and apologies for it being such a long first post! I'm looking forward to your ideas...

[Dr. Mike]

It is always difficult to discern what the actual problem is. Blades can be an issue, but more in terms of dragging, skipping, not cutting as smoothly, not cutting as closely - if you are really cutting yourself up, it is probably more an issue of technique.

The Futur does require a different technique than the HD - it is heavier, etc., and adjustable - so you might need to play with the angle you shave at.

My next question is how many passes are you doing, and in what directions? By pass, what is meant is how many times you lather and shave. For example, I typically do 3 passes - meaning I apply the lather, shave, rinse, reapply lather, shave, rinse, and reapply once more, then shave and rinse. Don't try to take it all off in one pass - the idea is to do it in increments, not using much pressure, and that should help alleviate irritation to some extent.

Finally, what directions do you shave? Have you determined the grain of your beard? I like to do my first pass shaving with the grain, my second pass across the grain, and my third pass across the grain in the opposite direction. For BBS, some people also like to add against the grain, but only after at least a couple of passes to cut down most of the stubble. Keep in mind that the grain will probably vary in different parts of your face. On my cheeks, my whiskers grow down, but on my neck, on either side, they grow up diagonally towards my chin. Taking the time to get a feel for the grain of your beard will help a lot to get a more comfortable shave.

Hope that has helped. Also, do you have a good lather when you shave? One that is nice and slick, so that the razor slides instead of skips? That can make a huge difference.

[Dr. Mike]

I noticed you didn't mention what kind of shave cream/soap you use. What are you currently using? That can be a big deal. I hope you aren't still using the aerosol goop (Barbasol, Edge, Gillette, etc.).

If nothing else, if you aren't using a good soap or cream, go down to a Bath and Body Works and buy a tube of C. O. Bigelow Eucalyptus shave cream - comes in a shiny green box. It is a big tube and sells for $10. If you don't have a brush, don't worry about getting anything expensive just yet - go to a local drugstore and buy whatever cheap boar brush they sell in their shaving section. You may not like the smell of the shave cream (menthol and eucalyptus) but it gives a great lather very easily.

Finally, go to YouTube and find the shaving videos by Mantic. They are incredibly helpful when first learning proper technique (making lather, shaving, etc.).

Hope these things have helped.

Mike

[Eagle]

Barberpole.gifSilentBob.gif

Welcome aboard shaver. I would give a big +1 to the Dr.'s advice. I would have offered the same opinions. I will add that I started with a Merkur long handle and had pretty good results, but thanks to Ray (not Ron) also known as ThirdEye I have obtained a 65 Gillette SS. I find I get better, closer shaves with it. So you might consider picking one up from him or the various other outlets available here. As to blades I'm still in search of the right one myself. I'm currently using the Derbys which aren't bad, but I don't think they will be my final go-to blade. I too have heard good things about Crystals and will move to them next. Good luck.

[poppi]

Welcome to the mix!

+1 on the Mantic video's, they are great. Also, I found that I have "muscle memory" from shaving with a disposable for so long. Find myself taking loooong passes and putting pressure on my face. All that does for me is irratate and nick the face, not good.

Short strokes, no pressure and finding the right angle will do wonders. Take your time, don't get frustrated and enjoy.

[Mudweasel]

Cheers guys... Ok, firstly as I said, I only suffer some form of iritation once in every three shaves or so... the other two are pretty well perfect (BBS and irritation and nick free).

I use Taylors creams (avocado and sandlewood) and get a good lather (with a decent quality badger brush). I've mapped my grain out and do 4 passes - WTG, WTG, XTG and the ATG. Technique seems pretty stable (thanks to the youtube vids, advice here etc) and as I get near-perfect results 2/3 of the time, I guess I am looking for advice as to how to turn 2/3 good shaves into 3/3 if that makes sense (working on the 'if it works 66% of the time, I must be doing something right principle')?

I have no habits from using other razors before, as I've used an (dare I say it...) electric for the last 20 years or so...

Really, I was curious as to whether any other new DE converts had had greater success with the Futur over the HD, as I seem to have and also which blade would be a good one to try out next?

[scoopster]

Regarding your question of which blade is next - I would say the Swedish Gillettes then the Feathers given some of the ones you have already sampled.

Oh, and welcome Mudweasel!

[crankymoose]

Welcome to B&B

since your getting no irritation 2 out of 3 are you doing anything different on the 3rd shave? different cream, different prep or passes? also what type of aftershave are you using maybe your skin needs more moisturizing to help it recover, when you try the Feather you may find you can eliminate one of your passes which also may cut down on the irritation on the 3rd shave

good luck and enjoy

[thirdeye]

Welcome to B&B, we're glad your here...Enjoy!!!

[burningdarkness]

Welcome to B&B! Hope you enjoy it here!

[j6ppc]

If 2 out of 3 shaves are irritation free is there any pattern to on which shave that occurs? If it is the first one corking might help. If it is the 3rd one then perhaps you should change blades after two shaves.

[THECHEBB]

Welcome to the mix!

[kevtex]

Welcome to B&B. I have the HD and it takes 4 passes along with a touch up for me to get a good shave. Maybe you can try a slant if your beard is course and stubborn like mine.

[Mr. Gillette]

Welcome...

You found my least favorite of the blades (Merkurs) right away. To me it doesn't matter what you try next...that's the fun of the sample pack. Obviously you're getting good "feedback" from each of the blades you try, and you're developing a hierarchy of what works.

You describe the blades in good terms...relative to what many of us have experienced-- and if you can notice these attributes and jot some of them down as you go, a favorite or "go-to" blade will come to the fore.

The same with the razor. Just take your time and keep track of what your face tells you.

One aspect you didn't mention was PREP. In my book, after a few decades of DE shaving, if I had to skimp on one area (timewise) I'd skip 2 passes out of 4 and still do a decent prep. If I want to guarantee an uncomfortable tugging, pulling shave with the best razor, best soap, best blade possible, I can skimp on the prep. On the other hand, if I have a 99 cent puck of Williams, a "middle-of-the-road" blade from Walgreens, and I still want a comfortable shave, I give it the entire "go" from the Prep side of it.

Prep is "IT" for me.

I use Kyle's pre-shave prep...exactly as spelled out on his fine post. I would challenge you to be open-minded and try this for 10 days and see how it affects your shaves.

You might have $400.00 worth of shave prep goodies, and you might spend 12 hours in the shower, under steaming hot water, with special Mongolian Mud smeared on your face and dung from Albanian Goat Herds rubbed on as a final step, before putting on your Prorasso...but IMHO it doesn't amount to anything compared to Kyle's Prep. Try it.

Welcome!

[Dr. Mike]

Sorry, I probably told you a bunch of stuff you already knew. The only other thing I can think of has been mentioned - is the worst shave always the third one with a blade? Do you just need to change the blades more frequently? I love the Crystals, and get some of my smoothest shaves with them, but the third shave is always tending towards the rough side - I never use them for more than 3 shaves (that is the beauty of them being so cheap). In addition to all the blades available in the westcoastshaving sampler, there is another blade that I have found works well for me - Astra Superior Platinum. It is sharper, to me, than the Crystal, but not as unforgiving as the Feather. The Swedish Gillettes were wonderful, but too pricey.

Hope you find the solution to your problem.

Mike

[frank85]

Welcome aboard Mudweasel

[Lenny]

Hows it going mate, welcome from a newbie. Like you, Merkurs are like gardening implements on my face. Try the Gillette Swede's, i have found them to be very sharp and gentle. I have a tough, heavy beard growth and these seem to glide through the stubble .

[studman46]

Welcome aboard. This is a great site. Everyone here is very helpful. I've been DE shaving for 6 months since discovering this site. I too, have the Futur and started with it. Have since gotten 6 gillettes, (New Standard, Slim adjustable, two techs, Aristocrat, SS red tip); while they all shave well, the Futur is still my favorite. I get consistently BBS shave, irritation free if I prep properly and don't overdo number of passes or apply pressure and use properly made lather with enough moisture. I too, tried Merkur blades which gave good shave but were uncomfortable and irritating and only lasted about 3 shaves. I now consistently use Personnas which seem to last forever and work great for me with the Futur. The Futur is the only razor that I can do 2 passes with (XTG, ATG) or even just ATG with BBS results and no ingrown hairs or bumps. I've found that face prep and good lather are most important. Don't go over problem areas without lather on face or multiple passes; that will guarentee redness/irritation. I use TOBS creams with great results (especially like Lavender; Sandlewood tends to sting and irritate some users). Have also found cheap VDH soap to really protect face. It's a fave of mine. It is glycerin, hypoallergenic with oat extract and vitamin E for sensitive skin. I do first pass with Futur on '2' and final pass on '2.5' or '3'. Also go very lightly on sensitive neck with NO PRESSURE. I've just ordered the new Merkur slant on a barberpole from Lee's Razors. He charges no S&H for B&B members. Tell him John at falkirk68 referred you. Hope this helps.

[Mudweasel]

Wow - loads more responses than I had bargained for... and a whole heap of good info and advice for me to ponder... many thanks to all of you.

I'm going to try out a couple of things... corking (showing my ignorance here, but I'd never heard of this before, but hey, it can't hurt), changing blades after just a couple of shaves and obviously trying out different blades from the sample pack... all whilst still trying to improve and become as consistent as possible with the fundamentals (prep, angle, pressure etc...)

For now, I'm going to go back and stick with the Futur over the HD... I know that may be against the 'norm', but as I've had more success with the Futur, it makes sense to me to stick with that as a constant (for now). Determined to get it close to 100% eventually, as it's so satisfying when I do get it correct... although maybe I'm being greedy expecting every shave to be perfect...!!!

Thanks again guys!

[studman46]

Just another aside. I've found if you hold Futur at it's fulcrum or balance point which is where the handle is indented and smaller you get less pressure and perfect balance. I've tried corking (running blade edge in slicing motion partway through cork 4 or 5 times) with the Merkur blades (which are better off as a veggie-matic) makes no difference; still give a crappy shave. You can get the Personna blades in a pack of ten for $1.54 and the Van der Haven soap for $1.35 at Walmart; they always have them in stock. I find it best to use a milder blade with a more aggressive razor like the Futur and the Personnas work great for me and can use one blade for up to 2-3 weeks believe it or not; other blades are 4-5 shaves. As I said before, you can do less passes with the Futur and less passes means less irritation. I can't say enough about the Futur; have found nothing to match it. My prep is: shower, washing face with Nad's body scrub (an exfoliant to debride skin of old skin cells and clean pores), put on hair conditioner on beard and leave on; leave face wet while drying off; make lather; re-wet face; lather up, shave; rinse face with mildly hot water then rinse with cold water to close pores; dab face slightly dry and apply one of my moisturizing lotions. BBS shave which lasts 20 hours before any stubble starts to appear and 48 hours before need to shave again. Stick with the Futur; shave with it on 2 or 2.5 and don't increase number for final pass for now. Let me know how this works for you. Happy DE shaving.
-John