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First time honing straight razor problems

D

dlarriv0

Hello! New to the forum and was hoping you guys could help me out.

I've been trying to get my straight razor back to shaving sharp and for the life of me I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong!

My equipment: All norton stones, 1k, 4k, and 8k, as well as a strop with red solingen paste on the linen, black on the smooth leather, and then a clean smooth leather strop to finish.

My poor straight razor was horribly rusted after sitting in a puddle of saltwater created by a salt lamp. (By the way, that's a thing, who knew?) Previous to this it was just pulling hair, just past the point of a strop being sufficient.

my process so far: I did the circle method recommended by Lynn Abrams from straight razor place on the 4k and then polished on the 8k. After this I tried shaving with it and still pulled hair. I noticed uneven wear on the spine and lapped my stones flat, the center wearing down first before the edges flattened out, which explained the uneven spine wear. After this I decided I should reset the bevel seeing as it was probably the worse for wear. Circle method on the 1k. Felt dull. Another time with the circle method, and then again, and the razor is finally to the point where its passing the thumb pad test, feeling "sticky" as Mr. Abrams puts it, and also feeling as if it would slice into me with any pressure. However, at no point during this process has it shaved hair on my arm. I'm so confused...I usually sharpen my own knives so I like to think I know what sharp feels like, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Please help!

-David
 
seattleshaver

seattleshaver

I'll try making a few comments that are common to a situation like yours.

If you know how to sharpen knives this "could" hinder your straight razor progress only because you may be using too much pressure. That may not be the case but I'm just throwing it out there. Just in case it isn't obvious, the spine does need to rest against the hone (unlike knives).

Try shaving the coarser hairs on your leg. If you can't cut those at the 1K stage then the bevel isn't set. I have fine arm hair and don't usually have much success using that as a test but leg hair does work for me.

Don't leave the 1k level until the toe, belly and heal can all cut leg hair.
 
Last edited:
sfeile

sfeile

dlarriv0 said:
Hello! New to the forum and was hoping you guys could help me out.

I've been trying to get my straight razor back to shaving sharp and for the life of me I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong!

My equipment: All norton stones, 1k, 4k, and 8k, as well as a strop with red solingen paste on the linen, black on the smooth leather, and then a clean smooth leather strop to finish.

My poor straight razor was horribly rusted after sitting in a puddle of saltwater created by a salt lamp. (By the way, that's a thing, who knew?) Previous to this it was just pulling hair, just past the point of a strop being sufficient.

my process so far: I did the circle method recommended by Lynn Abrams from straight razor place on the 4k and then polished on the 8k. After this I tried shaving with it and still pulled hair. I noticed uneven wear on the spine and lapped my stones flat, the center wearing down first before the edges flattened out, which explained the uneven spine wear. After this I decided I should reset the bevel seeing as it was probably the worse for wear. Circle method on the 1k. Felt dull. Another time with the circle method, and then again, and the razor is finally to the point where its passing the thumb pad test, feeling "sticky" as Mr. Abrams puts it, and also feeling as if it would slice into me with any pressure. However, at no point during this process has it shaved hair on my arm. I'm so confused...I usually sharpen my own knives so I like to think I know what sharp feels like, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Please help!

-David
Click to expand...
Welcome David! I'm sure someone with more experience than me will chime in soon, but I'll see if I can help a little.

If it was rusted, are you sure you have all of the pits out of the edge?

I learned the hard way of grinding away a lot of a good razor that sharpening a knife, and sharpening a straight are two different animals. Sure the concept is the same, but the technique is a lot different. Without seeing your edge, I can't tell you 100% what you may be doing wrong, but I can tell you some things that I was helped with that got me going.

No pressure. That is a big one. You will roll your edge and grind away a lot of the spine. This can also lead to an uneven bevel.

You may be raising a burr that is causing it to grab your finger, but not quite cut the hairs. Try stropping after your 1k stone. See if that improves the edge. If it does, you most likely had a burr.

Don't waste your time on the 4k or 8k until you get it right off the 1k. All this will do is give you a highly polished dull edge.

I was going to say make sure your stones are flat, but sounds like you already got that one covered. Some pencil lines across the stones when lapping will help you make sure.

Try marking your bevel with a sharpie. This will help you see if you are using an even stroke and how your bevel is progressing.

Like I said, there are guys here with a lot more experience than me, but those were some things that I struggled with. Hope it helps.
 
D

dlarriv0

No pressure? Not at all? The video I watched with Lynn Abrams, he says initially he uses five to ten pounds of pressure (I aim for five, just like with knives) for the circle method, and then no pressure for x strokes following the process. Some people say some pressure, others say none, I just don't know what to do because I'm not having much success with either. I'm thinking I might accidentally be rolling the edge without realizing it, I know straights are much more particular than knives are.
 
sfeile

sfeile

dlarriv0 said:
No pressure? Not at all? The video I watched with Lynn Abrams, he says initially he uses five to ten pounds of pressure (I aim for five, just like with knives) for the circle method, and then no pressure for x strokes following the process. Some people say some pressure, others say none, I just don't know what to do because I'm not having much success with either. I'm thinking I might accidentally be rolling the edge without realizing it, I know straights are much more particular than knives are.
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe just a little pressure, but virtually none compared to what most people are used to when sharpening a knife. Just remember that unless you are honing a full wedge grind, its almost like you are honing a sheet of paper. You push too hard and you will flex it. Then you aren't removing the metal the way you are intending to.

Plus Mr. Abrams has done a few thousand, so it's a little easier for him to know what is a correct pressure. My problem came from my hands being so damaged that when I "thought" I was being gentle I was still like a bull in a china shop. :lol:

Have you seen the pin test to see if you are rolling the edge/making a burr? Could be a quick way to test. Very gently use the point of a pin and come across your edge. Like a pushing motion like you were drawing a line from the spine out across the edge. (I know that's not the most excellent description.)
 
bluesman 7

bluesman 7

David, you should post your general location. There may be someone in your area that could help you out. Many aspects of honing are very easy in person as compared to going through a keyboard. At the Denver meet, I had people hold the stone as I was setting a bevel so that they could feel how much pressure I was using.
 
David

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
bluesman 7 said:
@C FrankC , has not been active for a while, but this may reel him back in. He is in Olympia.
Click to expand...
Frank is a good guy and knows his way around a stone. It would be a huge help to sit down with someone like him for instruction.

By the way, welcome to B&B, David! (We need more David's around here). :thumbup:
 
Z

Zach

The very first time I honed, I ended up having to go from bevel to shave-sharp because I messed up the blade by lifting the spine a little during a touchup x-stroke. My take-away from that was that you can never do enough bevel-setting. Get your bevel to where it’s passing the TPT, then do it some more! Personally, I stay away from circles and just do sets of five half-strokes on each side until it passes the TPT and cuts hair consistently along the blade as others have mentioned. Sounds to me like you don’t have a great bevel, as discouraging as that probably sounds after the work you’ve done! Once you get a good bevel, less and less pressure as you go through the progression is key. Keep your razor away from salt lamps in the future! :)
 
seattleshaver

seattleshaver

David, in rereading your post, it sounds like you are close. If the TNT is doing more than it was try cutting leg hair (as I mentioned in my earlier post) and if that works then go back through the progression and try shaving again and see if it is better. It should be if the TNT was different (better) than it had been in the past.

If the shave is now better but not where you expect it to be then you probably just need to spend a bit more time on each stone. If it's not shaving better then you still need more work on the 1k.
 
D

dlarriv0

Thanks for all the advice guys, I plan on going back and trying it again tomorrow, just had to put it down today because I was so frustrated. Anger and sharp things don't mix!

Will post progress.
 
Doc226

Doc226

First load a picture of your razors, even an unmagnified picture can tel is a lot.

I use a cherry tomato to check my bevels., the edge should easily cut the tomato skin along every cm of edge with minimal pressure. If it glides over the tomato skin the bevel is not set.

Forget about LA, he lives somewhere else.
You need to stay on the bevel setting stage until the bevel is set, can't tel you the number of laps, could be 30 or 1000 depending on razor grind and condition. Set the bevel like your life depended on it, you can't think it is set, you can't hope it is set and set along the entire edge.

Absolutely no point in moving to a finer stone until it is set, it is akin to polishing a turd, still a turd.

You said the razor was rusted, did you clean it up? How? You might have removed way more of the edge than you think and that's why it is taking so long to get a bevel.

Also the norton stones are relatively slow cutters even at the 1k
 
Jnatcat

Jnatcat

As [MENTION=44174]Doc226[/MENTION] stated gotta set the bevel first or you are going nowhere first, before being mentored I use to count strokes and just assumed after say 50 strokes I could move on well that is the farthest thing from the truth, as Doc said could be 30 strokes or 1000, I start my bevel set with two sets of about 25-30 strokes with a medium pressure then regular strokes and if the razor has no real issues and is not stainless or INOX or some other stainless blade the bevel should set pretty quickly but you have to know what to look for and yes I use a tomatoe as it's the easiest for me, i did at one time try the TPT,TNT, cutting hair at skin level but the tomatoe test is the easiest and it either works or not so no guessing then after it's set you can go thru your progression and just remember pressure will be the number one killer of a great edge as you get close to finishing.
 
M

macdad

I am a beginner too, but I wanted to add what I do to sharpen my razor. When setting a bevel, I keep doing laps until it is popping leg hairs. Not shaving next to the skin, but cutting them about 1/8-1/4" off my leg. It still snags the hairs, but it cuts them. The higher grit stones make it so it no longer snags and just cuts.

For whatever reason, my forearm hairs are too fine. I have a difficult time doing the same on my forearm. This could also be the fact that I just can't sharpen a razor that well yet.
 
C

C FrankC

Dcaddo111 said:
Frank is a good guy and knows his way around a stone. It would be a huge help to sit down with someone like him for instruction.

By the way, welcome to B&B, David! (We need more David's around here). :thumbup:
Click to expand...


Been out of the country for awhile- good to be back! David and Victor thank you very much for the kind words. I sent a PM to our new friend here in town I would be happy to help however I can.

Cheers
Frank
 
David

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
C FrankC said:
Been out of the country for awhile- good to be back! David and Victor thank you very much for the kind words. I sent a PM to our new friend here in town I would be happy to help however I can.

Cheers
Frank
Click to expand...
Good to see you back, Frank! I hope you've enjoyed yourself abroad.
 
bluesman 7

bluesman 7

C FrankC said:
Been out of the country for awhile- good to be back! David and Victor thank you very much for the kind words. I sent a PM to our new friend here in town I would be happy to help however I can.

Cheers
Frank
Click to expand...
Good on you Frank.

David, you will be learning from one of the best.
 
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