Menthol in creams - what's the deal?

[jhclare]

I just read this from the Men-U cream review:

However, here are the cons...for those that have sensitive - stay away from this product!!!!! This is really not much different to "canned goo"...so it really is true to the "gillette image" - the men-u shave cream

[1] contains ALCOHOL &
[2] contains MENTHOL

alcohol dries the skin - menthol cools the skin, thus closing the pores - the idea of a wet shave in my opinion is using plenty of hot water - to open the poors and lubricate the skin - the cooling effect completely counters the copious amounts of hot water I used and my pre-shave preparation to open the pores and moisturise the skin

Are these worries justified? Is this correct? In menthol counter-productive?

A lot of the recommended creams on this forum contain menthol!

So who is right?

John

[1969Fatboy]

personal preference. Some have bad reaction and sensitivity issues. Some love the cooling effect. I personally dont think it takes away from the shave. I like the extra zing especially with this hot weather. There was a post by Joel before about the effects of menthol in glycerine soaps that might not be good for your brush but dont know whatever panned out. I use proraso, mama bears awakening and trade winds with no problems. Now benzocaine on the other hand should be avoided since it basically numbs the pain? Will let other chime in on that though. If you do want the true icy experience try the mama bear awakening peppermint, tea tree oil ,and menthol! QED tea tree, peppermint, and patchouli is nice as wel.

[jhclare]

Thanks for reply.

I seem to like the cooling effect (have yet to try Proraso, Ingrams, etc... can't wait!)

I'm just worried that the statement "menthol closes the pores" is true? Surely this isn't desirable!

[Aevum]

the main worry about menthol is that it crystalizes, and scratches the fibres in your brushes, atleast thats what i understood from the whole menthol soap discussion,

[flipperz]

Proraso (aka C O Bigelow @Bath and Body) rocks and reasonably priced! My daily cream.

[Ironman06]

I was planning on starting a new thread regarding Proraso tonight, but as we're discussing it here with regards to the Menthol, I'll just include it here.

I first purchased and tried the green tube from Charles back in November and absolutely HATED the feeling. Not too long after that I tried the Ogallalla soaps sampler and had a strong burning sensation. The two together inclined me to believe that I must be extra sensitive to soaps and creams. HOWEVER, just tonight after reading some posts where guys continued to praise the stuff, I decided I'd pull out my 99% full tube and give it one more try before offering it on the BST. But to my wonderment, I actually rather enjoyed my shave this time. The menthol was cooling and the cream was nice and slick... so for whatever reason... I've changed my mind. It's pretty nice stuff. Of course I had no reason to believe it was going to damage my brush until reading this thread. I hope that's not true.

[lowhawk]

I haven't had any brush problems with Proraso. Its a nice cream and I like to use it during the summer.

[Ockham's razor]

The white (Green Tea and Aloes) Proraso doesn't contain eucalyptus and camphor but still has menthol in it. The cooling is less intense than the green. The green tub/tube gave me irritations after a couple shaves but the white tub is a godsend.

[NeckShaver]

I personally love me some menthol

[ScottS]

It all comes down to personal preference. If you do a bit of research, you'll see that menthol works in things like shaving cream because it is a counter-irritant, which means that through its own subtle irritating action, your nervous system is distracted from more serious irritants.

[Ockham's razor]

It all comes down to personal preference. If you do a bit of research, you'll see that menthol works in things like shaving cream because it is a counter-irritant, which means that through its own subtle irritating action, your nervous system is distracted from more serious irritants.

Why is my skin less irritated then? If it was just a "nervous system" thing, then the skin should be just as much irritated as with other products without menthol. It is not just a case of not feeling irritation. If my skin is less prone to redness with mentholated soap and cream, it can't be just in the head.

[NeckShaver]

Why is my skin less irritated then? If it was just a "nervous system" thing, then the skin should be just as much irritated as with other products without menthol. It is not just a case of not feeling irritation. If my skin is less prone to redness with mentholated soap and cream, it can't be just in the head.

Not quite sure I catch your drift but I think you just proved Scotts' point

[Ockham's razor]

Of course I had no reason to believe it was going to damage my brush until reading this thread. I hope that's not true.

Don't worry, you still have no reason to believe...

[Ockham's razor]

Not quite sure I catch your drift but I think you just proved Scotts' point

My main point is that I don't find myself able to agree to this presumed fact: namely, that menthol is by definition an irritant. Truly, menthol has anasthesic effect; but it has also anti-inflammatory and antisceptic properties. So if we were talking about xylocaine, for exemple, Scott might have a good explanation because xylocaine is just an anasthesic without anti-inflammatory property.

What I was saying then is that if Scott presumption were the case, the menthol would just block the sensation cause by irritation without doing a thing about the irritation itself. The skin should remain as red/irritated as before without feeling the pain which is not the case for most of the guys who use that kind of creams/soaps. I suspect that menthol is primary use for its anti-inflammatory proprety and not for its anasthesic effect.

Too much menthol can irritate some gent. I find the green Proraso to be a bit irritating (might be related to eucalyptus and camphor though...). The white tub, on the other hand, is a godsend for my sensitive skin. I don't find the same soothing effect with other high end creams and soaps containing other soothing oils.

[NeckShaver]

My main point is that I don't find myself able to agree to this presumed fact: namely, that menthol is by definition an irritant. Truly, menthol has anasthesic effect; but it has also anti-inflammatory and antisceptic properties. So if we were talking about xylocaine, for exemple, Scott might have a good explanation because xylocaine is just an anasthesic without anti-inflammatory property.

What I was saying then is that if Scott presumption were the case, the menthol would just block the sensation cause by irritation without doing a thing about the irritation itself. The skin should remain as red/irritated as before without feeling the pain which is not the case for most of the guys who use that kind of creams/soaps. I suspect that menthol is primary use for its anti-inflammatory proprety and not for its anasthesic effect.

Too much menthol can irritate some gent. I find the green Proraso to be a bit irritating (might be related to eucalyptus and camphor though...). The white tub, on the other hand, is a godsend for my sensitive skin. I don't find the same soothing effect with other high end creams and soaps containing other soothing oils.

The "light bulb" just flicked on, thanks for the clarification.

[ScottS]

What I was saying then is that if Scott presumption were the case, the menthol would just block the sensation cause by irritation without doing a thing about the irritation itself. The skin should remain as red/irritated as before without feeling the pain which is not the case for most of the guys who use that kind of creams/soaps. I suspect that menthol is primary use for its anti-inflammatory proprety and not for its anasthesic effect.

I'm not really sure. There are clear, but poorly understood, anti inflammatory properties of menthol. They clearly have nothing to do with a nervous system, as they've been demonstrated on cell cultures that have no nervous systems. I'm not sure if the time scale matches that of the numbing sensation you feel (or at least I feel!) during a menthol shave.

The counter irritation properties seem a lot easier to find than the anti inflammatory properties, as well. Just go to scholar.google.com, and search for "menthol counter irritatant". Anecdotally, I can tell you that before I understood the hazards of numbing your face with menthol during a shave, I had PLENTY of post-shave inflammation.

There's a lovely review of Menthol in the J. Amer. Acad. Dermatol., but I don't know if you need a subscription to view it. Try THIS LINK. All the mechanisms still aren't particularly well understood, but some of them have been pinned down just over the last five years or so.

[comfortablynumb]

I "used" to like the cooling feeling, but I had a bad experience with Eucalyptus essential oil. Now I'm extremely sensitive to anything with mint, menthol, etc... so I have to avoid it :( can't even use mint tooth pastes anymore

So to me the menthol burn is a definitely counter productive and highly irritating, but like with everything else in shaving it's YMMV what works for some won't work for others.

[Ockham's razor]

Thanks for the link but you have to subscribe to read the entire article.

I understand your point about counterirritation - that's the primary reason I was so reluctant, initially, to use mentholated product - and I also agree that the numbing effect doesn't translate into less inflammation especially when you are applying more pressure on the skin with the razor because you don't feel a thing - but you understand that nothing will help at this point. Like I said, too much menthol can irritate and I have no doubt that some companies might try to mask crappy low end cream/soap with menthol's counterirritation effect. On the other hand, I can't believe menthol can numb one's skin to a point where you don't feel the razor cutting into your skin (not theoritically but taking into account the dosage in shaving cream/soap).

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by counterirritation in the present case. Is it the numbing effect? If so, wouldn't it be the anaesthetic effect then? Why I ask the question is if it is the counterirritation, why don't I see this particular effect on my skin?

Like I said, before trying the white tub, I wouldn't see myself using a mentholated soap or cream on a daily base. What I found out is that at the right dosage, menthol can be usefull for irritations and inflammations (if one's knows how to shave...).

[Ockham's razor]

I "used" to like the cooling feeling, but I had a bad experience with Eucalyptus essential oil. Now I'm extremely sensitive to anything with mint, menthol, etc... so I have to avoid it :( can't even use mint tooth pastes anymore

So to me the menthol burn is a definitely counter productive and highly irritating, but like with everything else in shaving it's YMMV what works for some won't work for others.

The green Proraso tube tends to irritate my skin after a couple days of shaving. I think it is the eucalyptus and camphor and probably the higher concentration of menthol. The red Proraso tube which contain wheat germ and menthol doesn't irritate but I can feel that there is more menthol than what I need. The white tub, on the other hand, is very mild from a mentholated point of view and perfect for my me. I am still trying to find another soap/cream that will surpass Proraso Green tea and Aloes tub - thanks to SSAD and SCAD... - but to little avail. I haven't try the mentholated version of Valobra yet. It might be a good candidate since the hardcore menthol guys find it underwhelming...

[ScottS]

I understand your point about counterirritation - that's the primary reason I was so reluctant, initially, to use mentholated product - and I also agree that the numbing effect doesn't translate into less inflammation especially when you are applying more pressure on the skin with the razor because you don't feel a thing - but you understand that nothing will help at this point. Like I said, too much menthol can irritate and I have no doubt that some companies might try to mask crappy low end cream/soap with menthol's counterirritation effect. On the other hand, I can't believe menthol can numb one's skin to a point where you don't feel the razor cutting into your skin (not theoritically but taking into account the dosage in shaving cream/soap).

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by counterirritation in the present case. Is it the numbing effect? If so, wouldn't it be the anaesthetic effect then? Why I ask the question is if it is the counterirritation, why don't I see this particular effect on my skin?

Because its not very well understood, its hard to answer. First, I think there's probably a fine line between irritation and counter irritation-- the latter is obviously a subset of the first-- and I'm sure that there are people who just fall on the wrong side of the line. The razor cutting into your skin can be a pretty subtle feeling (its more of a scraping), and a bit of numbing can probably bring the newbies into a dangerous zone. I've long thought that a high-menthol cream isn't the best way for a new DE user to go for just this reason. For some people, even if the shave is jsut miraculous, that tiny bit of extra comfort might encourage them to go that 0.005" too close, and ingrowns and post shave irritation might happen.


Last-- just because something has menthol or euc in it and some have problems with it, I wouldn't assume that the problems are because of the menthol. Sometimes even the mildest stuff will cause an irritation in some people.