Future Rifle Owner

Afternoon Gents,

Now that I'm almost 17, I can look forward to buying a rifle in about a year. I currently have 2 options, both of which I am content with, but can only save up for one.

1st: Building an AR from a kit and 80% lower

2nd: Buying an AR from a gun show and doing the modifications myself

Ideally, I would want to keep things under $1000, which makes me lean toward the second option. I would want a red dot sight, tac light, and a front grip.

I enjoy the thought of no serialization of the rifle, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

It has to be an AR?

Take option #2. Get some experience with the rifle before you try a build.

On serial #'s - Any lower that you will purchase will have a serial #. That is the part that is considered to be a forearm.

DO NOT touch anything without a serial #. Having a firearm without a serial # is very bad juju and not worth the risk at all.

Listen to BSA guy.

There are quite a few "Off the shelf" ARs under $1000 that are very nice. Smith and Wesson has a nice one.

Personally I'd rather have a Henry in .45, but that's just personal preference.

IMHO...............

If you were not born a natural gunsmith...................Well you got my point already. Hopefully.

I am also a fan of "Long Guns" and have a few.

The only Semi-Auto I have is my trusty Ruger 10/22.

For more serious business is my Winchester 30/30

Gets the job done without scopes or anything else for that matter.

But to each their own.

An 80% lower is not a beginners project. Get a factory complete gun for your first gun by all means. You will save money in the long run.

I have built two ARs recently and both were from a serialized stripped lower receiver. One was with a bunch of BCM parts and the total ran me about 1500.00 without an optic. The second build was with PSA parts and I opted to build the lower and then mate a completed upper to it. The PSA build ran me about 497.00 with Magpul furniture and no chrome lined barrel.

Building a lower has certain pitfalls such as the installation of the trigger guard roll pin. One can easily sheer off the ears on the lower receiver while installing this part. There are ways around having to hammer in the pin and even specialty tools to squeeze this part in but still, slapping a lower together does have it's challenges.

Building an AR is a fun project and is not that hard. PSA has sales on occasion and catching these sales is key to keeping a build on the cheap. Folks say to stay away from their PTAC stuff but I found their regular upper and lower parts build kit to be pretty nice for the money.

A quality optic is going to be spendy and you are going to need magazines and ammunition. If I were you I would look to a completed blemish lower and a complete upper and try to find the MOE versions with the Magpul goodies. Find a local FFL to handle the lower transfer and everything else you can have shipped to your door. This option should leave you with about half your budget for magazines, ammo, and some sort of optic.

Oh yeah, building an AR requires certain tools if you start with a stripped lower and stripped upper receiver. I bought a Magpul wrench and that thing was expensive. I also bought roll pin starter punches, grease, etc. Tools will start digging into your budget as well.

Hope this helps you out some. My son is about your age and he and I built this last one (PSA) together as a father son project.

BSAGuy said:

On serial #'s - Any lower that you will purchase will have a serial #. That is the part that is considered to be a forearm.

DO NOT touch anything without a serial #. Having a firearm without a serial # is very bad juju and not worth the risk at all.

Click to expand...

I believe that an 80% lower has no serial number. It's not a complete stripped lower; you have to do some home machining to the incomplete lower to finish it into a "firearm". It's legal to do. If you do that, then complete the lower with a parts kit, then add an upper, you have a completely legal AR without a serial number. BUT: I don't believe you can transfer it to anyone legally, and I don't know why a respectable person would want a non-serialized rifle anyway.

Buying a stripped lower, adding a parts kit, then adding an upper and add-ons can be a satisfying home-build experience. And it's not that difficult. You do need to get some tools (punches, vise, a magazine block, etc.), so it's not cost-effective compared to buying a complete lower or complete rifle. I have one that I built that way for about $500 with iron sights.

My advice would be to buy a complete rifle. You can get one off the shelf and still have several hundred dollars to add things like a good inexpensive red dot and decent furniture and still be under $1000. Until you know what exactly you want in an AR (bolt carrier group, optics, furniture, etc.), you'll end up spending money on things you want to upgrade later anyway. So I wouldn't go full custom the first time around. Then when you know what you want, you can sell your first rifle and go crazy if you want to. An off-the-shelf rifle holds its value better than something you built yourself.

Thanks for the clarification on the serial # point, Komboloi.

Komboloi said:

I believe that an 80% lower has no serial number. It's not a complete stripped lower; you have to do some home machining to the incomplete lower to finish it into a "firearm". It's legal to do. If you do that, then complete the lower with a parts kit, then add an upper, you have a completely legal AR without a serial number. BUT: I don't believe you can transfer it to anyone legally, and I don't know why a respectable person would want a non-serialized rifle anyway.

Buying a stripped lower, adding a parts kit, then adding an upper and add-ons can be a satisfying home-build experience. And it's not that difficult. You do need to get some tools (punches, vise, a magazine block, etc.), so it's not cost-effective compared to buying a complete lower or complete rifle. I have one that I built that way for about $500 with iron sights.

My advice would be to buy a complete rifle. You can get one off the shelf and still have several hundred dollars to add things like a good inexpensive red dot and decent furniture and still be under $1000. Until you know what exactly you want in an AR (bolt carrier group, optics, furniture, etc.), you'll end up spending money on things you want to upgrade later anyway. So I wouldn't go full custom the first time around. Then when you know what you want, you can sell your first rifle and go crazy if you want to. An off-the-shelf rifle holds its value better than something you built yourself.

Click to expand...

Start with a stripped lower or a complete rifle. The work required to finish an 80% lower is not easy without the right tools. By tools I mean a mill. Don't even think of trying one with a hand held router and drill press. While it might work it would not be good quality.
Since uppers quickly transfer between lowers, you can easily add a 80% later if you want. Personally I would buy one now if you want it since I am sure the rules will be changed in the future to make them hard to get. Then finish it some time in the future when you have the skills. The other options are to buy the molds to cast your own or to 3D print them. Both can provide a lower without a paper trail.

Komboloi said:

I believe that an 80% lower has no serial number. It's not a complete stripped lower; you have to do some home machining to the incomplete lower to finish it into a "firearm". It's legal to do. If you do that, then complete the lower with a parts kit, then add an upper, you have a completely legal AR without a serial number. BUT: I don't believe you can transfer it to anyone legally, and I don't know why a respectable person would want a non-serialized rifle anyway.

Click to expand...

Correct.

To shrink wrap and bury in the ground, just in case.

MacQ said:

Afternoon Gents,

Now that I'm almost 17, I can look forward to buying a rifle in about a year. I currently have 2 options, both of which I am content with, but can only save up for one.

1st: Building an AR from a kit and 80% lower

2nd: Buying an AR from a gun show and doing the modifications myself

Ideally, I would want to keep things under $1000, which makes me lean toward the second option. I would want a red dot sight, tac light, and a front grip.

I enjoy the thought of no serialization of the rifle, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Click to expand...

Red Dot budget - Primary Arms
TacLight - Streamlight is = to Surefire but more reasonable prices

Buy an AR or stripped lower first understand the ins and outs how it works and fits together first. Then do an 80% down the road.

Komboloi said:

I believe that an 80% lower has no serial number. It's not a complete stripped lower; you have to do some home machining to the incomplete lower to finish it into a "firearm". It's legal to do. If you do that, then complete the lower with a parts kit, then add an upper, you have a completely legal AR without a serial number. BUT: I don't believe you can transfer it to anyone legally, and I don't know why a respectable person would want a non-serialized rifle anyway.

Buying a stripped lower, adding a parts kit, then adding an upper and add-ons can be a satisfying home-build experience. And it's not that difficult. You do need to get some tools (punches, vise, a magazine block, etc.), so it's not cost-effective compared to buying a complete lower or complete rifle. I have one that I built that way for about $500 with iron sights.

My advice would be to buy a complete rifle. You can get one off the shelf and still have several hundred dollars to add things like a good inexpensive red dot and decent furniture and still be under $1000. Until you know what exactly you want in an AR (bolt carrier group, optics, furniture, etc.), you'll end up spending money on things you want to upgrade later anyway. So I wouldn't go full custom the first time around. Then when you know what you want, you can sell your first rifle and go crazy if you want to. An off-the-shelf rifle holds its value better than something you built yourself.

Click to expand...

It is true that you cannot transfer an 80% non serialized lower to anyone or take it to another state. You cannot legally give it to anyone either.

As far as your statement about not knowing why a respectable person would want one is an interesting one. Could be that one would like to see if they could actually do the machining and fitting required to make an operating rifle? If it is legal to do so, why the heck not?

Guys I made a couple of small edits. A few of you are walking very close to the no tolerance on politics. Stay on topic and leave .gov out of it.

Thanks

nortac said:

An 80% lower is not a beginners project. Get a factory complete gun for your first gun by all means. You will save money in the long run.

Click to expand...

+1000

Just cut to the chase and get a class III AR-16

turtle said:

Just cut to the chase and get a class III AR-16

Click to expand...

Lol'd. It is very doable.

Whatever you do, make sure you stay legal regarding both federal and your state laws, make sure your barrel is long enough to be a legal long arm. I built 6 AR types for myself and always used serial numbered lowers. I don't know about preparing a "80%" receiver. What has to be done, just drilling holes, threading for buffer tube? How do you have index point for holes for trigger group, safety, ect. Do you have the tools to do these things and the skills to do so.

I have a fairly good drill press and a cross indexing vice and still would not care to try for the pricesion needed for some of the operations on a receiver.

I saw some comments about being illegal to carry out of state, sell or give away, and really do not know. I do know I have a very pretty European bolt action sporter made in 1929 that has no serial number.

MacQ,

What is your shooting experience to this point?

Guns prior to mid 1968 were not required to have serial numbers. So many do not. I had a shotgun from the 50's that was not numbered and one from the 20's that has every screw numbered ( made in Belgium). A serial number is not required for a sale.
You are currently allowed to make your own firearm, hence the 80% lower. There are a few things like the mag well that are hard to make on an ar, so you can buy a lower that has that part done. Most 80% lowers need the 3 holes for safety, hammer and trigger added and a pocket for the trigger, hammer and safety. If you make your own firearm, which is what you do when finishing a lower, you can not sell it because then you would be in the business of manufacturing firearms and need a license. It's more of a novelty than anything else. There are enough prints available from a Google search to build an ar15 lower completely from scratch if you have the skills.