Hey bro, youre doing it wrong.

SliceOfLife said:

...right off the stone.

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By right off the stone I simply meant without having to paste strop or use pasted balsa to get a keen edge. As of right now if I simply strop leather I am still left with an edge that is not keen enough to shave with, I tried it this afternoon and am not happy that I made that choice because the razor pulled and tugged my face half-off... After experimenting with all the variables over and over again I still get the same edge, looks sharp but it's not sharp enough to just strop and go. I've repeated this same edge on two razors around 20 times now... don't know what I'm doing wrong, but whatever it is, its consistent - and that's what I don't get because I've tried varying EVERYTHING and still get a consistently near-keen edge.

SliceOfLife said:

When you're able to, I would try something in the area of 25/25 clean linen and leather..

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I'm still using a small whipped dog poor man's strop, so until I can pick up a nice Heirloom or likewise I am unable to confirm or deny if this would improve the keenness of the edge.

TreadwayJohnA said:

By right off the stone I simply meant without having to paste strop or use pasted balsa to get a keen edge. As of right now if I simply strop leather I am still left with an edge that is not keen enough to shave with, I tried it this afternoon and am not happy that I made that choice because the razor pulled and tugged my face half-off... After experimenting with all the variables over and over again I still get the same edge, looks sharp but it's not sharp enough to just strop and go. I've repeated this same edge on two razors around 20 times now... don't know what I'm doing wrong, but whatever it is, its consistent - and that's what I don't get because I've tried varying EVERYTHING and still get a consistently near-keen edge.

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Ahh I figured that may be what you meant.

Hmm. Have you tried anyone elses coticule edges? I can shoot you a razor with a coticule finish on it if you want to check it out and pif it when you're done with it, but it'll be several days before I can get to the post office. I'm working wall to wall doubles for the next few days.

SliceOfLife said:

Ahh I figured that may be what you meant.

Hmm. Have you tried anyone elses coticule edges? I can shoot you a razor with a coticule finish on it if you want to check it out and pif it when you're done with it, but it'll be several days before I can get to the post office. I'm working wall to wall doubles for the next few days.

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Sent you a PM

After you are done I wouldn't mind giving it a once over for you myself. Either a coti or Jnat finish with CBN finishing sprays.

Well my epiphany came to me earlier this afternoon, and long story short I was able to produce a comfortably shave-able edge, off the coti, without additional pastes or abrasive treatments. I could stand for it to be a bit keener, but I will attempt to work it some more in tomorrow. What did it take? A near mental breakdown for one, but mainly it took very little, actually it took much less than what I was already doing. I kept thinking about something Jerrod at Superior Shave had said. Mainly to not overthink or over-complicate the process. Instead of worrying about slurry, no slurry, circles, half x's, med pressure, lather, pigtails, HHT, etc. etc. he suggests that it was so much more simple than that. Take the blade, put it flat on a coti with water, apply little pressure, and simply perform the exact same stroke, alternating of course, over and over until the blade is keen... Easy right? Well as stupid as it sounds it is that easy! Don't focus on the countless variables, focus on the control - the stone, the razor, and water. Jerrod said in one of his Tube videos to imagine each stroke as a "note" played on an instrument, and just play the same note over and over. BEST ADVICE EVER, because when I stopped thinking, the razor keened right up. So for anyone new to honing, having difficulties with your coti, don't overthink it - just keep it simple and play the same note until it's sharp!!! Seriously, it really is that easy and by overcomplicating everything you're just going to aggravate yourself to death, as I did.

Oh yeah, I just bought two more cotis... God save the queen

John,

Congrats on getting a decent edge, and as stated don't overthink it, I to starting out over thought it way to much and that haunted me for a very long time and now I seem to be able to get an acceptable edge in pretty short order, is it perfect everytime ? No but thats what makes and keeps things interesting.

Jnatcat said:

John,

Congrats on getting a decent edge.

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Thanks! Even though it really is quite simple, it is a learned process that takes a lot of patience. And the feeling of being entirely self-sufficient with my SR's is priceless! Was the edge perfect, no. Will it ever be, hope so but if not I'm okay with it. Did I make a SR shave-ready.....YES! Now on to find a good strop that will compliment coti edges.

Awesome. And now you go from there and play around until you're "maxing out" the edge on that rock. And yeah. The worst thing you can do is overthink. From a good prefinisher like a 6k... flat with water (or oil where applicable)and work the razor as long as you need to is the way to go for pretty much decent whetstone. Once you're there you can start trying to get tricky with slurries, dilution, lather, glycerin, fancy strokes, etc; to see if anything works better for you; but honing on a good quality hone is really as simple as what you've found.

TreadwayJohnA said:

Thanks! Even though it really is quite simple, it is a learned process that takes a lot of patience. And the feeling of being entirely self-sufficient with my SR's is priceless! Was the edge perfect, no. Will it ever be, hope so but if not I'm okay with it. Did I make a SR shave-ready.....YES! Now on to find a good strop that will compliment coti edges.

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TM makes an excellent strop that won't break the bank, and even though it's not really expensive his attention to detail is excellent for the price, if you want to step up your game in strops look into Scruppleworks, Kanayama, Westholme etc... but honestly a basic good quailty leather strop can be had for little $$.

Jnatcat said:

TM makes an excellent strop that won't break the bank, and even though it's not really expensive his attention to detail is excellent for the price, if you want to step up your game in strops look into Scruppleworks, Kanayama, Westholme etc... but honestly a basic good quailty leather strop can be had for little $$.

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Yeah, I've had my eye on a Tony Miller. And as of the 27th he re-stocked so I may talk the wife into nabbing one before they sell out again.

TreadwayJohnA said:

Yeah, I've had my eye on a Tony Miller. And as of the 27th he re-stocked so I may talk the wife into nabbing one before they sell out again.

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I think this one 2 1/2" Notovan Horsehide "Plain Chocolate" Strop is a pretty good deal, I have his 2 1/2" preminum Notovan and like it alot, the plain chocolate is 1/2 the cost but knowing Tony's work and his attention to detail it's still a great strop.

Jnatcat said:

I think this one 2 1/2" Notovan Horsehide "Plain Chocolate" Strop is a pretty good deal, I have his 2 1/2" preminum Notovan and like it alot, the plain chocolate is 1/2 the cost but knowing Tony's work and his attention to detail it's still a great strop.

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Yep, that's the one I've been eye-balling. Great craftsmanship, worth well over $50 IMO

I had a 3" Tony Miller and only sold it because I don't like 3" strops. I would have replaced it with a 2.5", but frankly I've got 6 strops already in rotation, and I'm out of nails to hang them all on. They're great strops. I had paid ~$120 for mine, and it was worth that, so they're a downright steal at $50.

SliceOfLife said:

...I've got 6 strops already in rotation...

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If I had 6 strops I would be living with them in my car, the wife is well grounded and doesn't take lightly to acquisition disorder. Well, at least someone is having fun!

Lol. Only two were full-dollar purchases. And both were well worth it. The other four are vintages I snagged, often hidden in the back of "lot" images. One NOS, three required some restoration before they were ready for the wall. But yeah, you definitely don't need more than one. I do 90% of my stropping on my Dubl Duck, just because it's the one that's closest to me when I reach for them, and it's also the most resistant to scratching, which is a nice feature to have when stropping razors with flawed geometry that required a significant heel or toe lift on the stones. Trying to contact a recessed toe on a strop is a great way to scratch a strop.

Baby steps.
Your bevel isn't set.
Learn that, and the world is your oyster.
Miss that - and your shaves will suck for eternity.

You can't judge how sharp an edge is by looking at it.
Start at the beginning, learn how to set the bevel. Then move to the next stage. And so on.

Finally ordered my Tony Miller strop, it should be in by Friday. I anxiously await it's arrival as I've heard such amazing things about his craftsmanship. Oh and Gamma, thank you for the advice. I have since learned the importance of having a well-set bevel or "foundation" to work upon. I am taking things more slowly and methodically in order to build muscle memory. I am seeing improvements daily and feel very hopeful about the future of my honing skills, thanks.