- Thread starter
- #41
I am disappointed too and apologize if my 4 beer response above sounds too harsh.
Shaving straight from stone
- Thread starter rideon66
- Start date
Attachments
Seem that if you frequent ANY forum for long enough, there will be some dust-ups. I frequent other shaving sites, fly-fishing sites, fountain pen sites, SCUBA diving sites, Knife collecting sites, Firearm sites, Medial professional sites, and I have seen this type of stuff in everyone of them. Sometimes I think people just get carried away with themselves. Probably just a human nature thing. I guess typing away on a key board beats bashing each others head with clubs at the cave entrance like the cavemen!
There's no need for anyone to get offended or angry. I've never had a shave anywhere near the quality I've come to expect from a stropped edge without stropping; but there's a lot of variables in play; it would certainly intrigue me to find a stone that created an edge that was degraded by stropping. I can't think of how it's possible, but there's always ways for something like this to surprise you. I doubt Tom thought it was possible until he encountered it either. When I have a chunk of time and no new stones to test, I may pick a few hones out to do some trials along this line with; but it's unfortunately rather low on my priorities list, because I really don't have high expectations that I'll find stones that behave as Tom's does.
This return to the stone for minimal work after stropping is certainly interesting, and I'm curious to see what if any impact it has on the edges I tend to get off Thuringians. It's a test for a day when I have a little time on my hands though. Maybe I'll get to it early next week.
This return to the stone for minimal work after stropping is certainly interesting, and I'm curious to see what if any impact it has on the edges I tend to get off Thuringians. It's a test for a day when I have a little time on my hands though. Maybe I'll get to it early next week.
- Thread starter
- #45
Thanks Mr. bob. I can say that the thuris from Hatzicho feel different than the others I have and only can compare them to a barbers delight. I will have to try my other thuris to see if this method works for them too. I only tried it from one of his hones because he suggested it..
I'll give it a go on one of my BD's then, when I get a chance.
- Thread starter
- #47
After seeing other posts from those that came on here to diss this thread I think a photo they showed was a false representation of the edge off a strop from a natural stone and should not have been placed here. I believe this was a photo from a synthetic progression that was then taken to a pasted strop and used diamond spray. It has no bearing on the issue of this thread. If you prefer synthetic stones, pastes and strops I think that is great. If you are going to come on a thread and talk crap because you may not have the skill to get nice a shaving edge from natural please take a good look at why you are doing this hobby. I do it for fun and because I have sensitive skin. Electric and disposable razors irritate my skin and edges from synthetic stone pastes and sprays are harsh and irritating to my skin. So I really do like the natural stone after many years of suffering with skin issues these stones have made shaving fun and enjoyable. Being able to get a smooth no irritation shave direct from a stone tells me alot though about that stone no matter which direction I shave.
That being said there are many ways to get a shavable edge. What is great for one person may not be so good for another. That is why we try different things.
That being said there are many ways to get a shavable edge. What is great for one person may not be so good for another. That is why we try different things.
Again this is not to offend any body, and i know and experienced also by myself that there might be combinations of good factors which will make it possible to shave off the stone. For me this worked very rarely, and if it works well for any body regularly thats really good!!
On the other hand if shaving of any stone would reproducable with each honing procedure we would never had build up a market for strops of any kinds. This market sells strops in good amounts since hundreds and more years...if we all would come around that way, no strop would have been sold since then....
On the other hand if shaving of any stone would reproducable with each honing procedure we would never had build up a market for strops of any kinds. This market sells strops in good amounts since hundreds and more years...if we all would come around that way, no strop would have been sold since then....
- Thread starter
- #49
Yes but there was a time when everyone used pasted strops too. On the other hand some seem to not get the point of this thread. I am only asking if anyone else had done this particularly with a softer stone with good results. I am not trying to say everone should go out and shave off thier stones without stropping.
Thats why i wrote that i experienced it a view times...actually as mentioned before i believe its a "multiplication" of good procedures and conditions to end there.....there is enough potential not to end at this stage also. This means for me personally its not "reproduceable" again and again....hope this makes it a bit clearer....
- Thread starter
- #51
What stones were they that you experienced this with? That is the point of this thread.
I don't agree. I've found plenty of vintage strops that clearly never saw a lick of paste. Reading the old barbers texts I have, it sounds like Pastes were viewed similarly back then... a sort of gimmicky way to shortcut off a lower quality stone to an edge that shaves decently and/or a quick fix for a VERY bad hone (the old advice to rub your linen strop on a rusty pipe). Clean linen and leather were always king.
- Thread starter
- #53
Sorry I am not really talking about a particular time here although I was kind of leaning toward 1775-1820. The point was some of these things go in and out of favor. I think there was a time were most people on here used them thing go in cycles. Now you did peak my curiosity on the pasted strop subject though. I have some really old razors that seem to have the same type of shape. It was discussed on a different forum if this shape was a deliberate shape from the maker or if it was caused by many years of pasted stropping without a stone. They showed lots of examples of razors that had the same belly curve and believed all the razors started life straight. If this is true most razors from that period would have mainly been used on pasted strops. Otherwise there would be many examples of worn down razors from that period that did not have that belly curve. Along with this curve many have a heal spike too. So do you see strops from that time period? Also the vintage strops you have seen. Is there a chance that they were not used much or cleaned? I guess I also don't know when you say vintage strops what time period we are talking about. 1990 is sadly now considered vintage.
Early 1900s mostly. Hard to find good condition strops older than that. Leather that's not taken care of does have an eventual death, unfortunately. They weren't cleaned. Believe me. I've tried to clean vintage strops that were pasted; and it can not be done. The only things that will survive nuclear armageddon are Roaches, Twinkies, and Pasted strops.
Belly curve? You mean a frown? If so, that's just really bad honing and/or bad geometry/warping in the blade, not stropping that does that. In fact generally any bad geometry you find on razors is due to poor honing. Most guys got by with what they had and the vast majority of razors were ground down into almost nothing like their original geometry on the hone. Probably more than half of the razors you'll find have the toe worn down from years of shank lifting on the hone. It's why razors with the original geometry / NOS often have such value attributed to them. For every NOS GoldEdge you find, there's twenty out there rusting out and deformed through poor honing.
Belly curve? You mean a frown? If so, that's just really bad honing and/or bad geometry/warping in the blade, not stropping that does that. In fact generally any bad geometry you find on razors is due to poor honing. Most guys got by with what they had and the vast majority of razors were ground down into almost nothing like their original geometry on the hone. Probably more than half of the razors you'll find have the toe worn down from years of shank lifting on the hone. It's why razors with the original geometry / NOS often have such value attributed to them. For every NOS GoldEdge you find, there's twenty out there rusting out and deformed through poor honing.
- Thread starter
- #55
No I am talking belly to heel. Like these old guys. According to the guys in the know on these really old razors they think they all got this way because they were stropped daily on a pasted abrasive strop and that was how most everyone kept razors sharp in those days. They have prime examples of these same razors that are all straight across on the bevel no curve like these and many well used examples that all had this same curve.
Also from the conversation about how these old gals got this way.
It's dead-certain that abrasive, pasted strops were very popular during this period. Packwood made his name by selling little packages of strop paste along with his strops (before he had his own brand of razors, made by various Sheffield manufacturers). Also popular at the time were padded strops, where the strop surface was a cushy, rounded surface. Between that and the abrasive paste, regular stropping would have had to wear down razors, and the tapered end of the cutting edge on those old styles would definitely end up showing a tooth like that from strop wear.
Also from the conversation about how these old gals got this way.
It's dead-certain that abrasive, pasted strops were very popular during this period. Packwood made his name by selling little packages of strop paste along with his strops (before he had his own brand of razors, made by various Sheffield manufacturers). Also popular at the time were padded strops, where the strop surface was a cushy, rounded surface. Between that and the abrasive paste, regular stropping would have had to wear down razors, and the tapered end of the cutting edge on those old styles would definitely end up showing a tooth like that from strop wear.
That's what happens with a heel heavy honing technique once you get to the point where the stabilizer/tang starts hitting the hone. You press down more at the heel to compensate for the fact that there's unground steel holding it off the hone, and doing this digs out the razor at the heel. It's more common on those razors because the tangs are huge due to pretty rudimentary grinding technique. I don't really see how abrasive stropping could do that. If you check the geometry of those razors the angle of the grind increases as you move to the heel. It would require substantial force to cause this. Force that wouldn't be present in abrasive stropping.
This sort of thing happens a lot with knives when the stabilizer/shoulder starts hitting the stones. People attempt to grind back the stabilizer, and it does this scoop effect to the edge directly in front of it.
This sort of thing happens a lot with knives when the stabilizer/shoulder starts hitting the stones. People attempt to grind back the stabilizer, and it does this scoop effect to the edge directly in front of it.
Last edited:
kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
I personally cannot imagine that a pasted strop could remove that much material. Taking that much off with a stone would take some serious work or many years of poor technique. If it were a strop, it would be some serious abrasive, not CrOx.
- Thread starter
- #58
See now this is were everyone is just giving opinions and really doesn't know. I have those on another site who I would say are probably the most knowledgeable about this time period in razors saying one thing and you guys saying something else, but know one really knows.
Where I actually had a theory that some razors were designed with this shape. Note the two John Shepherd razors are not the same razor. One spent most of it's life in Finland and the other one spent most of it's life here, but the shape over 200 years is almost identical not very likely from honing unless it was honed by the same person which it wasn't. Now add to that the tooth which on the Evatt is below the tang leading me to believe it was made that way too.
OK now this thread is going way off topic.
I think I need a beer.
Where I actually had a theory that some razors were designed with this shape. Note the two John Shepherd razors are not the same razor. One spent most of it's life in Finland and the other one spent most of it's life here, but the shape over 200 years is almost identical not very likely from honing unless it was honed by the same person which it wasn't. Now add to that the tooth which on the Evatt is below the tang leading me to believe it was made that way too.
OK now this thread is going way off topic.
I think I need a beer.
Why would someone be the most knowledgeable about 300 year old razors? Are they 300 years old?
And you not believing multiple people making the same mistakes when honing produces a similar geometry suggests you've not purchased many eBay razors. Believe me, there are a handful of geometry problems you will run into literally hundreds of times if you buy razors regularly. This is one of them. It's not caused by stropping. That's absurd.
And you not believing multiple people making the same mistakes when honing produces a similar geometry suggests you've not purchased many eBay razors. Believe me, there are a handful of geometry problems you will run into literally hundreds of times if you buy razors regularly. This is one of them. It's not caused by stropping. That's absurd.
- Thread starter
- #60
No they have done a lot of research and have many writings and drawings from said time period. I have not found anyone else with the amount of knowledge they have on these early razors. I will argue this point no more because it has no answer of truth. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
