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- #41
It looks like a difference but may just be the lighting. I'll post a few side by side pics tomorrow so we can have a closer look.
Something odd. Double odd. Old timers dust off your investigative skills!
- Thread starter HDSledge
- Start date
It looks like a difference but may just be the lighting. I'll post a few side by side pics tomorrow so we can have a closer look.
Thanks, looking forward to the pics. That number 228 would not have to mean that it was the 228th one made. It could be a code describing materials, parts, assembly processes etc.
Or maybe testing was done by giving all the guys on third shift a razor like this and #228 did not get turned back in. Would not be the first time. This picture is from a lot on the auction site a few years back. The owner's father worked at Gillette. See anything interesting?
- Thread starter
- #43
Thanks, looking forward to the pics. That number 228 would not have to mean that it was the 228th one made. It could be a code describing materials, parts, assembly processes etc.
Or maybe testing was done by giving all the guys on third shift a razor like this and #228 did not get turned back in. Would not be the first time. This picture is from a lot on the auction site a few years back. The owner's father worked at Gillette. See anything interesting?
You mean besides the bottom dial Fatboy and the red dot Toggle (5 position no less)? What the heck is that second from the bottom? Never saw a super speed with what looks like slots in the base similar to a comb. Going cross eyed trying to figure that one out. This must be one of those "Find as many oddities in this pic as you can". Solution on the back page.
What did I miss?ps. if they handed them out to take home for testing I don't think they would take all the time and labor to hand etch each one. They would probably just sign them out and back in. Methinks someone would have seen one before now if hundreds were made.
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R
romsitsa
Very interesting. I'd say it wasn't intended to be marketed as Gillette marked every razor and this Executive also has a marked baseplate but for some unknown reason the adjuster plate remained blank.
The Executive Slim in Copierguys picture also looks to have a blank adjuster plate?
Adam
The Executive Slim in Copierguys picture also looks to have a blank adjuster plate?
Adam
How long has gillette been doing the R&D thing where they ask people to show up and shave for them? If it's been going on since then, maybe it's one of those. I guess that would make it a test model, wouldn't it? Hehe
Kindly,
Adam
Kindly,
Adam
I just emailed Gillette and requested any historical info concerning these type razors and how they were developed, tested and determined to be market worthy in that era. I'm not holding my breath that I'll get anything substantive to work with in return, but worth a try at least. Will let all know if and what any response ends up being.
I too am quite interested in this as it does shed some light into the internal workings of the Great Gillette manufacturing machine and infrastructure surrounding it. My thoughts, being relatively new to this incredible community of upstanding and most gentlemanly individuals who actually do THINK things through, are that 1) It could or could most likely be a pre-production piece. The under-head base plate was first die stamped in a large pressing machine without hallmarks or date code stampings. The pieces used for the pre-production test were simply taken from this stamping run and randomly selected-again without hallmarks or date-codes, and assembled into the pre-production test piece. 2) However, the fact that it came with a warranty card as such does indeed add credence to the information that Dion has posted. Large and visible companies like Gillette, any host of watch manufacturers such as Hamilton or Elgin who made high-end watches as examples, often assembled samples of their products for gift presentations exactly as Gillette had done and Dion illustrated. There was no inventory outlay or cost to do so aside from the addition of whatever was necessary to complete the presentation- in this example, a plastic case, dispenser, and warranty card was all that was needed. Gillette, as we know, was historically quite frugal. 3) Vibrational etching devices were indeed available at the time this razor was destined for production. Even larger companies who needed to distinguish mated pieces often etched numbers or handedness onto a pierce. Carburetor parts by Skinners Union in England is an example from the same time period. Therefore, it is not unreasonable that this would be a pre-production sample that was hand-numbered using a mechanical etching device for identification, that found its way into Gillette's goodie closet. God Bless! Tony Brown RN mgbbrown 
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The warranty card is a picture from a complete set Tony. I think the razor in question was found sans documentation or anything.
Thanks Todd- That does complete my understanding.
Good job Lane! Primary source documentation here will certainly shed light on this and other historical practices by Gillette. I am hopeful that they will reply as they certainly are aware of our web presence here. God Bless! Tony Brown mgbbrown
Good job Lane! Primary source documentation here will certainly shed light on this and other historical practices by Gillette. I am hopeful that they will reply as they certainly are aware of our web presence here. God Bless! Tony Brown mgbbrown
- Thread starter
- #50
That is correct this one didn't have a case or documentation.
- Thread starter
- #51
I can't see any difference. I assume the main parts are all the same with the regular Fatboy? Executive Fatboy is just the Fatboy with gold on it (different knurling?)?
I dug deep into the history of Gillette and got the whole story:
So someone said at a Monday morning meeting: Hey guys! Let's make a gold one. No new tooling! And the boss said: Keep your shirt on Dave, we have to bounce it off marketing first. Boss says to product devo: Make me a few. Marketing says: We like it! Christmas is coming up. We will sell them like hotcakes! Accounting says: But our profit margin is too low they are only 2 bucks! Boss says: Put them in a cheap plastic box and get them on the shelves now or you're all fired.
And history is made...
I dug deep into the history of Gillette and got the whole story:
So someone said at a Monday morning meeting: Hey guys! Let's make a gold one. No new tooling! And the boss said: Keep your shirt on Dave, we have to bounce it off marketing first. Boss says to product devo: Make me a few. Marketing says: We like it! Christmas is coming up. We will sell them like hotcakes! Accounting says: But our profit margin is too low they are only 2 bucks! Boss says: Put them in a cheap plastic box and get them on the shelves now or you're all fired.
And history is made...
You mean besides the bottom dial Fatboy and the red dot Toggle (5 position no less)? What the heck is that second from the bottom? Never saw a super speed with what looks like slots in the base similar to a comb. Going cross eyed trying to figure that one out. This must be one of those "Find as many oddities in this pic as you can". Solution on the back page.
ps. if they handed them out to take home for testing I don't think they would take all the time and labor to hand etch each one. They would probably just sign them out and back in. Methinks someone would have seen one before now if hundreds were made.
The five position Toggle razor we know reached retail with instructions and warranty cards found in some sets. The bottom dial in the photo is also a 1-5 model. To my knowledge no cases or paper work have been found for these. That plus some of the parts looked like machine work vs stamped supports the idea that they were not intended for retail.
That Super Speed caused a lot of buzz at the time. I have seen three of these total and two of these were found in the Boston area. Theories were flying around like leaves on windy fall day back then but I never learned of anyone coming up with anything documented.
***Thanks for those detailed side by side photos. I guess the angle of the previous photos did not tell the whole story like these. Thanks again.***
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- Thread starter
- #53
Would love to see that Super Speed opened and pics from various angles.
I have a weird request for the OP.
Will you use a flash light to look beneath the blank adjustment plate to see if there are typical logo and date stamps on the stationary plate with the safety bars?
I am curious if the Gillette factory might have used parts from a mass production razor (probably an Aristocrat) like they did for the A-1 "Serial" or "prototype" Toggles.
This is kind of a long shot, but the A-1 phenomenon hid under many of our noses for many years until GlennConti found it last year.
Will you use a flash light to look beneath the blank adjustment plate to see if there are typical logo and date stamps on the stationary plate with the safety bars?
I am curious if the Gillette factory might have used parts from a mass production razor (probably an Aristocrat) like they did for the A-1 "Serial" or "prototype" Toggles.
This is kind of a long shot, but the A-1 phenomenon hid under many of our noses for many years until GlennConti found it last year.
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- Thread starter
- #55
There is some residue in there between the plates but I don't see any obvious stampings on the underside of the guard bar plate or the topside of the blank adjustment plate. I'll soak it in some barbicide for a bit and that should loosen up the debris so I can have a closer look but it looks like the answer is that there aren't any hidden stamps.
Use a Qtip to get the residue out from between the two plates. It's easy and does no harm.
I have called the guy I know to try and visit again. He has been traveling and has not been home for a while. Hopefully I will be able to visit soon. And I plan to show him these pics and ask if he knows anything.
He work at Gillette from 1946 till retirement in the 1980's. Sometime after the P&G purchase of the company. I don't recall if he said an exact year or if he did I forgot. He does not like P&G at all and he doesn't tell all he knows. You have to question wisely and listen to glean some details. And he tends to get annoyed if you try to ask something that he doesn't want to talk about. So it's kind of a hard situation to get the answers you want sometimes.
I know some other guys of his generation who have the same attitudes to their work. Perhaps having experienced WWII caused this reluctance to tell all you know about a subject.
I remember seeing this somewhere
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- #59
Cool, I hope he will understand that we collectors don't care about P&G, we just want the history of Gillette preserved. Perhaps he can shed some light on the etched numbers.
I cleaned out between the plates and there is no evidence of stampings there btw.
Thanks guys for the great input and suggestions.
R
romsitsa
Hello,
I have other hobbies besides old Gillettes, and look for living history when I can. The most important problem is (in my experience) is that people who could shed some light on a given thing, beacuse they used it, made it, experienced it, etc. don't think that the information you look for is of any importance.
For eg. when I was looking for a given shade of green paint used by the Royal Hungarian Army, vets told me they have no clue what green they used, it was green.
Adam
