Makng & Canning Homemade Ketchup & Sauces

The recent threads about tomatoes, ketchup, and other sauces and condiments has me thinking. I would really like to start making my own. Now mind, anyone who thinks this is going to be economical should look elsewhere. You can buy perfectly good to great ketchup and mustard for 2-6 per jar and simply use them. No laobur involved.

My interests here are non-standard ketchup made with malt and or balsamic vinegar rather than the typical white or apple cider vinegar. A few good pickles like a Picallily or similar. And some chutneys. I REALLY like mango chutney and made a few jars up years ago and to my complete horror and chagrin I got one jar. The family nicked the rest.

The making and canning are pretty straightforward. Recipes and double secret probation family formulae are welcome additions to this thread as are any techniques you wish to share.

Where I will deviate just a bit from most preserving methods is the use of sauce bottles rather than Ball canning jars. Two reasons drive this. First, the canning jars, even the four ounce style, are a bit of a pain to store in the fridge without taking up a lot of space because of their width. Second, and I know this from experience because my old mum canned everything when we were little, the typical two piece lids eventually allow odour migration from other items in fridge and they always rust around the pressure bands. So for me it will be the classic style bottle of Heinz chili or cocktail sauce. The store brands use the same bottle.

These bottles are available in two configurations; 'lug' lid and threaded caps. Either style is suitable and come with a Plastisol sealing liner that should work perfectly in water bath canning methods. High acidity sauces such as tomato and vinegar based products are stable and safe without full on pressure cooking. A few minutes in boiling water will sterelise and seal them beautifully. Both styles of caps are readily available very cheaply from online sources.

My question is; Have any of you canned using the lug style caps? I prefer them because they don't seem to foul the threads as badly with poured product as the threaded closures do. Do they need any special technique compared to the threaded versions? Thanks.

Edit; Just wanted to add that salsa recipes are unnecessary. Nothing against salsa per se but the West/Tex/Mex thing has been done to death in my life. I am looking at old world chutney, pickles, and ketchup.

Gents, let me redact some of the post above. From what I gather the continuous thread lids with Plastisol are NOT to be water bathed and rely on hot fill and seal. Your product is cooked hot, the jar is hot(either from the food you put inside or heating the bottle or both) and then you attach the closure but not as tight as it will go and then let the heat form a vaccum and seal the Plastisol.

Lug lids on the other hand are allegedly suitable for full water bath preserving and would be my choice since the boiling bath sterilises both the sauce and the bottle at the same time.

And the Ball jar lids are good for water bath or pressure canning from what I gather. I don't know why a discrepancy exists between the threaded/lug/two piece lids since Ball's site lists their two piece canning material sealant as...Plastisol. However, I will look into this further before jumping in. A very minor issue I am sure. I just wanted all of us to be on the same page when t gets to the cooking and canning.

Alright gents, let me edit the above reply to...I am not sure what the procedure is for lug vs continuous thread Plastisol lined caps. I am getting directly conflicting information from various sites. I will post what I find when I am sure it is accurate. However, there is a USDA recommended for home canning. I won't tell you to ignore their recommendations but I suggest you look at YouTube videos of commercial canners using lug lids. To say they are not quite as stringent as allegedly inferior home canning methods is an understatement. In any case, ANY method or technique I post should not be considered a tutorial, advise, or even a safe method of canning. As I said, consult the officials for their recommendations. https://www.foodsafety.gov/blog/home_canning.html

What if you just went with the established standard for the initial canning, your easily procured Mason jar and lids, then when the time comes to store an opened jar in the fridge, transfer the contents to a more space economical container?

dave

I thought about that but I still need to store them on shelves and really do not want to do two procedures for one product. It would work no doubt but dealing with mason jars is a pain to me. Must be something about dealing with them as I grew up.

I have done some more searching and found almost direct reversal of what I initially found on the web. Here is my take on it as best I understand it.

Mason jars; Two piece lids. You do NOT boil them now. They are plastisol as well on the seal and manufacturer says not to pre boil. Heat them gently but no boil. Pressure canning is fine too they say. The intense heat is allegedly okay because of the method. I don't really understand it but they okay it.

One piece CT(continuous thread); This references jars and bottles. BTW, Mason jars fall into this category as well. Really this has more to do with closures. The manufacturers seem to recommend the threaded one piece caps in two varieties. High heat and low(er) heat. The former will withstand boiling water baths up to something like 220F. Many of these types will have a 'button' in the middle of the closure(cap/lid) that pulls itself down at the container and contents cool down. This helps you to know it has formed a good vacuum seal. The latter is made more for what is referred to as 'heat and pour'. The bottles are sterilised by heating them in 180F or so water. Then you thread the cap on and the heat of the container will make the lid seal. Most of the low heat rated caps do not have the button feature though I am unsure if this is a rule of thumb or lack of knowing the products. They are typically rated 180F and I am pretty sure the manufacturers do NOT recommend water bath but I have seen it done online.

One piece lug caps. Sealing ring made of Plastisol. These are seemingly all rated for the 180F heat and pour method. It's funny because if you watch certain videos on YouTube you will clearly see this type of jar and closure going through a submerged hot water bath. Like the CT one piece caps these are not to be completely tightened when installed. You need a bit of room for the heated product to drive out the air and seal and vacuum the contents. BTW, this is standard procedure on two piece Mason jar lids as well. At least when you do water baths. I am unsure about pressure canned items. My mum did that and it looked like alchemy to me at the time and I did not get too close. From what I gather the Plastisol works by sort of melting to conform to the shape of the top of the jar/bottle and the long water baths melt it too much and the seal is too thin. Potentially causing leaks.

Now here is where we divert to my personal opinions so stop reading if you are a by the book type. No problem with that at all. I think really the almost scare tactics described by most governing agencies about home canning come down to two points. Cleanliness and technique. And I would suggest the former is much more critical than the latter. Again, OPINION. Most of these guidelines say to use canned food in a year. Well I can tell you we used mum's canned goods for much longer time periods than that.

I also think it a bit humorous that a huge amount of attention is paid to how something is water bathed for sealing with recommendations of 10-20 minutes for some items. Well if you have ever done it you will know that when you see the air bubbles stop leaching out of the jars then you are as far as you can go. And it is usually much less than twenty minutes. In fairness, those recipes are rare. 10 is more like it and falls in line with most of what I witnessed as a child. It is why you don't crank the lids down all the way. You want about a 1/2 inch of space across most wide mouth jars. I see some bottles with nearly an inch of head space and I think they get away with it because the area of a narrow mouth bottle is no more than the volume of the width of a wide jar left with 1/2 of clearance. At least that is my guess. Yet the manufacturers get away with pouring sauces at 180F and setting a 1/4 turn cap on the container. With no water bath at all. Again, it goes to cleanliness and the type of product.

High acid products are the only thing you can do the heat and pour or water bath method of preservation with. The high acid content acts like a preservative. I am going to try the lug cap routine with a heat and pour product and see if I get a great seal. If not, then jars or hopefully some CT bottles can be sourced economically. Stay tuned. And gents, please feel free to divert the conversation back to the sauces themselves. I kind of went OCD on the canning thing.

The water bath processing is not just for sealing purposes. Same for pressure processing.

I made ketchup several years ago.

Enjoyed making it, it was a good experience, but more expensive than buying it. I got the favour i wanted, but it did not have the same texture. The commercial variety is put through very fine sieves under pressure, and have products added to keep it from separating.

I used a hot-water bath, and then when using it I replaced the canning lid/ring with a plastic top for use in the fridge.

Making mustard is also good, lots of varieties to try out. It is not as expensive as making ketchup (lots of tomatoes and then reduced to a small amount).

BrianShaw said:

The water bath processing is not just for sealing purposes. Same for pressure processing.

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You are certainly correct. I just found it odd that for all the reasons given for water bath processing (mostly for pasteurisation) that it seems perfectly acceptable to use a hot food pour into jars and rely on a 1/4 turn cap for sealing. Millions of bottled and jarred foods are sold this way yearly with no seeming ill effect on the contents. I am probably over simplifying it.

Pepin said:

I made ketchup several years ago.

Enjoyed making it, it was a good experience, but more expensive than buying it. I got the favour i wanted, but it did not have the same texture. The commercial variety is put through very fine sieves under pressure, and have products added to keep it from separating.

I used a hot-water bath, and then when using it I replaced the canning lid/ring with a plastic top for use in the fridge.

Making mustard is also good, lots of varieties to try out. It is not as expensive as making ketchup (lots of tomatoes and then reduced to a small amount).

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I have read similar comments before. Loads of work to make completely from scratch. Many recipes I am finding online say to start with a canned tomato paste since it is already condensed and concentrated. Then add liquid and other ingredients to get the desired consistency and flavours. I certainly don't want to reinvent plain tomato ketchup since a $2.50 jar of Heinz satisfies that for me. But a malt vinegar ketchup? Probably won't find that any time soon at the market. Here are also references to a colonial era mushroom ketchup I would like to investigate.

Mustards would be another good area to look at along with chutneys. Thanks for the feedback.

Properly canned is safe, improperly canned its risky. Proper canning involves properly heating all jars, lids, and utensils for a certain time, and proper hygienic handling, to make sure no bacteria survive. Listeria, e-coli and botulism can kill.

Instead of a lid on a glass jar, you can use plastic wrap and a rubber band for sealing the jar. When the jar cools, a vacuum (really low pressure) will form and the wrap will get tight like a drum skin and indent slightly, indicating a proper seal. Once you open the jar for the first time, put a screw lid on and keep it in the fridge until used up.

Phog Allen said:

Second, and I know this from experience because my old mum canned everything when we were little, the typical two piece lids eventually allow odour migration from other items in fridge and they always rust around the pressure bands.

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Try using Tattler reusable lids: http://www.reusablecanninglids.com/ . They're hard plastic, and use a red rubber O-ring to seal. I've used them for years and never had off odors get into my food. Others have also suggested switching to a different lid when you unseal the jar, which could work as well.

OkieDave said:

Try using Tattler reusable lids: http://www.reusablecanninglids.com/ . They're hard plastic, and use a red rubber O-ring to seal. I've used them for years and never had off odors get into my food. Others have also suggested switching to a different lid when you unseal the jar, which could work as well.

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Thanks for posting, didn't know there was such a thing although they might prove difficult to get in Canada.

Have no recollection of cross-flavour-contamination whether it was my mom's jars or with what we've been doing the last 25 or so years. Looking in the fridge the only Ball jars are pickles, maybe they would overpower any stray outliers.

dave

hotwheels said:

Properly canned is safe, improperly canned its risky. Proper canning involves properly heating all jars, lids, and utensils for a certain time, and proper hygienic handling, to make sure no bacteria survive. Listeria, e-coli and botulism can kill.

Instead of a lid on a glass jar, you can use plastic wrap and a rubber band for sealing the jar. When the jar cools, a vacuum (really low pressure) will form and the wrap will get tight like a drum skin and indent slightly, indicating a proper seal. Once you open the jar for the first time, put a screw lid on and keep it in the fridge until used up.

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Please forgive me for what may seem like nit-picking words, but I feel a bit more explanation of the plastic wrap technique is in order. I do similar - 2 layers of plastic wrap and metal bands - for cold pack items that are intended for short-term refrigerated storage. For hot-pack I use regular lids (although I often re-use them) and refrigerator store. I do not believe that plastic wrap or hot pack is a good technique for home applications including long term non-refrigerated storage. "Long term" vs "short term" has no definition, unfortunately, because it depends on too many other factors.

BrianShaw said:

Please forgive me for what may seem like nit-picking words, but I feel a bit more explanation of the plastic wrap technique is in order. I do similar - 2 layers of plastic wrap and metal bands - for cold pack items that are intended for short-term refrigerated storage. For hot-pack I use regular lids (although I often re-use them) and refrigerator store. I do not believe that plastic wrap or hot pack is a good technique for home applications including long term non-refrigerated storage. "Long term" vs "short term" has no definition, unfortunately, because it depends on too many other factors.

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The idea behind the plastic wrap cover is that it does not require sterilization as the jars and lids do in any case, because the lid has so little mass the heat from the sterilized jar and product is enough to sterilize the plastic wrap as well. The plastic wrap makes a really good seal on the smooth edge of a glass jar without any gasket/seal.

The only two problems I see are that first of all the plastic is very fragile, so a puncture may occur if not handled carefully and second, maybe diffusion of air through the plastic could be a problem. However, we routinely kept jams in jars with plastic foil covers for several years with the plastic foil still indented, indicating low pressure inside the jar. I have seen jam that was canned with that method,m and at maybe 8 years old, the product had crystalized inside the jar, but the foil seal was still intact.

I must mention that the plastic foil use dis not just any clear plastic wrap, but comes in sheets specifically made for canning. Admittedly, I have never seen these sheets in N/A but only in Germany. I would not recommend using regular plastic wrap for this purpose.

One thing I know from observing my American friends is that most of them do not properly sterilize the containers and lids ((>/= 10 min in boiling water or oven - touch only with sterilized tools after sterilizing) and they do not heat the product sufficiently compared to what I was taught.

The canning foil I have been familiar with since I can remember ('70s):

Very interesting. Thanks for the additional information.

Gents, good information all round. And I should add that the issue with cross odour contamination is typical with longer term storage items like jams or jellies. You don't dare crank that two piece lid down tight enough to really seal it or the inevitable layer of sticky product gets on the rim and near glues it to the jar. And even if that is a bit rare the rusting of the threaded rings is real enough. Especially if they have been through a few water baths over the years.

Really my deal with the Ball jars is not a loathing of them. They work well enough and have for 150 years. I want the bottles for easy dispensing. The store in the fridge easier but also you only need remove the cap and shake it out. Jars require a spoon. Just nit picking really.

As an aside, I was at a local grocer today and looked at the sauce products. Both Heinz and store brands. The cocktail and chili sauce from Heinz are really kind of cool. The bottle is indeed different than the store brands. It is octagon or hexagon shaped. I didn't count the flats but was just guessing. I had forgotten just how much design thought had gone into that bottle style. They've been selling that style in the States for many decades. It is really about perfect for storing, holding, and dispensing. And it just looks cool. I am not sure if the container is the same as sold in Blighty or Europe. The store brands have the same height and approximate diameter and have the bulges at the bottom and shoulder but they are round in section in the middle. No mind. The store 'chili sauce' and I quote that because I would have hard time using it, was a label full of ingredients and preservatives. They were on sale for $1.49 apiece and I may buy half a dozen and chuck the contents and save the bottles. Even if you wanted the Heinz bottles they are only a bit over $2 apiece and makes ordering new ones a bit dodgy.

And I am leaning mostly toward pickles, relishes, and chutneys. Ketchup is too easy to buy and nearly perfect as is. Chutney recipes are most welcome and a good ploughman's would be good too. Thanks again.

Gents, just for giggles I found a good photo the Heinz bottle that shows the shape pretty well.

Before you chuck the idea of homemade catchup, consider that not only can vinegar type and spicing be altered but the sweetness. My homemade catchup is less sweet than commercial... And more liked by my family. Kids included. To me, altering sweetness is the main reason for making a commercial food that can be bought more affordably.

But whenever you want to talk chutney...

BTW, I've bought and wasted mustard just for the containers. It not a weird idea after all!

Phog Allen said:

I want the bottles for easy dispensing. The store in the fridge easier but also you only need remove the cap and shake it out. Jars require a spoon. Just nit picking really.

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The burden of having to use s spoon!

You could put some products in a squeeze bottle. They should keep fine in the fridge for ten days or so. If they last too long, use smaller squeeze bottles.