Pretty sure the guy who recommends no stropping is Howard over at "The Perfect Edge." I've seen several posts from guys that have tried it and haven't gotten good results with that method. Recently saw one that really laid into the quality of the TPE house brand straight razors also. I would post links but it's not kosher here according to the TOS. Google should easily find them though.
Daily razor care to maintain edge
- Thread starter 6Cuda6
- Start date
Here's an "in-house" link.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/326263-TPE-Straight-Razors-by-The-Perfect-Edge
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/326263-TPE-Straight-Razors-by-The-Perfect-Edge
Howard Schechter may be right after all, stropping on a strop paddle is much more effective than stropping on hanging leather. I happened to keep rounding edges on my ZY430+ even after putting as much stress on hanging strop to keep it straight as I could. The paddle gave a far better result to maintain an edge than the hanging strop.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
This is generally not the case, even if you found the hanging strop to not work for you. There are many reasons why your strop might be letting you down. Possibly your strop is cupped, or you are not using any x-stroke, or your pressure is too heavy. Maybe you are letting the spine come up off the strop. Use what works for you, yeah, but do keep trying to make your hanging strop work. Eventually it will come together for you. The fact of the matter is, the VERY SLIGHT sag in a hanging strop that is unavoidable anyway, combined with light, controlled, consistent pressure, random x-stroke, and the usual spells and incantations, does a better job of burnishing and aligning the apex of the edge than a rigid flat surface. Flat for honing, or pasted stropping. Hanging for pre-shave stropping. That is the consensus of the community, found over the last two centuries or so. Not EVERYONE agrees, and nothing wrong with that. But I don't think your hanging strop, even if it is of sufficient quality, has had a chance to impress you, yet.
Could you post a pic of your strop?
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
It doesn't show up. Just shows aliexpress. But if you bought a strop from aliexpress I would say it is pretty suspect. At the very least, get a poor man strop from Larry at www.whippeddog.com. The people who made your "strop" probably do not shave with a straight razor and do not know what a strop is supposed to do or how to do it and so can't really be expected to know what qualities and design considerations are required in a usable strop. Chinese manufacturers will make ANYTHING, whether they actually know how to make it, or not, and can sell it for 1/10 the price of anybody who DOES know how it should be made, simply because they don't care about the details like if it is any good or not. They sell for 10% and make 50% profit after paying their workers a couple dollars a day and using subsidized shipping. As long as it is cheap enough that people who don't know what to look for will buy it, they don't care if the product is any good or not. That is the prevailing business model. So get yourself a proper strop and give it a go.
I have actually used one of those cheap $3 Chinese strops. Basically, they are worthless. $3 or $4 sounds cheap, but it is actually very expensive if it doesnt even do what it is supposed to do. So get one from a recognized vendor of straight shaving equipment, is my recommendation.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I can see it, it appears to be rough suede, not smooth leather strop.
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
That would explain a lot.
It actually has two sides. The rough suede on one side and the smooth side on the other. They also supplied diamond paste with it to apply on the rough suede. I rarely use the rough side for stropping after shave, only on the smooth side. The rough side was used only when I was learning to hone. It was good quality leather and the smooth side came without any blemish.
i feared that I would cut the edges while learning to strop so went for a cheap one. I also got a paddle from aliexpress, both soft side and a denim-type rough side for applying chromium or diamond paste which gave me far better bang for buck, because my stropping technique or any flaws in my elbow position did not matter with a paddle. All I had to do was to keep the spine to the paddle and apply minimum pressure until i heard that SHWINGG .. on both sides.
btw I am process of constructing my own paddle strop, by taking a wooden panel 10in long X 3in wide and gave it to a shoemaker to paste good quality leather on one side and suede on the other. So will see what I get with that. If that doesn't work I will get a paddle from here and be done with it. https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/12-XL-Double-Sided-Paddle-Strop-P314C11.aspx
i feared that I would cut the edges while learning to strop so went for a cheap one. I also got a paddle from aliexpress, both soft side and a denim-type rough side for applying chromium or diamond paste which gave me far better bang for buck, because my stropping technique or any flaws in my elbow position did not matter with a paddle. All I had to do was to keep the spine to the paddle and apply minimum pressure until i heard that SHWINGG .. on both sides.
btw I am process of constructing my own paddle strop, by taking a wooden panel 10in long X 3in wide and gave it to a shoemaker to paste good quality leather on one side and suede on the other. So will see what I get with that. If that doesn't work I will get a paddle from here and be done with it. https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/12-XL-Double-Sided-Paddle-Strop-P314C11.aspx
Here is another link
http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/...84711.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000017.2.iuHA3k
btw the manufacturer of that piece of leather says ZY and is from same company that makes ZY430+ straight razors I presume. It isn't bad quality really but it's only 1.5in wide and 1 foot long. So it's X pattern all the way. Frankly after a bit you get tired of doing X, because there is a risk of overapplying pressure on the edge and then it depends too much on technique.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/...84711.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000017.2.iuHA3k
btw the manufacturer of that piece of leather says ZY and is from same company that makes ZY430+ straight razors I presume. It isn't bad quality really but it's only 1.5in wide and 1 foot long. So it's X pattern all the way. Frankly after a bit you get tired of doing X, because there is a risk of overapplying pressure on the edge and then it depends too much on technique.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Take it how you like, but after much thought and experience as well as the reasoned advice of others, I have concluded that paste should NOT be used on a hanging strop, but only on a rigid or semi-rigid flat surface, and that balsa is way better than leather for that. A leather paddle strop is the way that was used back when so many shavers complained about paste rounding their edge or giving poor results in general. If you take a 12x3 piece of balsa, glue a thick piece of glass to one side, lap the other side, and apply diamond paste SPARINGLY (if you think you got enough, you probably got 3x too much... use a blob about half the size of a pea) and rub it into the balsa thoroughly so that the grit is embedded in the grain and there is no coating, you will get the best results possible from the grit size you are using. And you will want a progression. I have 1u, .5u, .25u, and .1u. I often skip the 1u as it just duplicates my 1u lapping film or 12k Naniwa. For daily maintenance, I use only the .1u these days. I never have to re-hone a razor.
IMHO you definitely need a clean hanging strop, pre-shave, though. Pasted balsa or actually pasted anything does not smooth and align the edge the way a clean hanging leather strop does.
Yes, it is advisable to go cheap for your first strop, but not THAT cheap. Have you looked at www.whippeddog.com yet? Larry's Poor Man Strop Kit is specifically made for use as a newbie's first strop and is about as cheap as you can go and still get worthwhile results. I am not a fan of CrOx on balsa, preferring diamond, but you may find the green paste on balsa to be satisfactory. The leather strop itself is nothing fancy but it is expendable so if you slice it up, no big deal. You will want to upgrade after a few weeks, but it will get you through the learning process.
I love going as cheap as possible, but there are limits on how far you can go and still get decent results. The best advice I can give you on learning to straight shave is to do like everyone else does, for the first month or two, before you depart from the beaten path and do your own experiments. It is hard enough to learn when you are using tried and true methods. When you randomly try stuff that has not proven to give good results, you are asking for more frustration.
If you are going to make a strop, why not make a hanging strop? You will want three chicago screws for the top end, and a sturdy D ring. Get these from a saddle shop. The bottom end just leave plain. This is called a barber end. Fold the leather over the straight side of the D ring, and drill three holes for the chicago screws, then put them in. Attach a dog chain clip, leather or paracord lanyard, whatever, to the D ring for hanging. The reason for three chicago screws is if your strop develops cupping, you can slightly enlarge the two holes at the sides to slack the sides even with the center. The center chicago screw then bears the same strain as the side ones and the strop is flat. Also, with the barber end, you can put more pull on the center if needed, by bending the end over your knuckle. Choice of leather for your first strop is not critical but generally a vegetable tanned leather is used, and the leather must be smooth and free of wrinkles. Be sure to bevel the side edges. There is a tool for this but I forgot what it is called. Sandpaper will work, though. Don't use super thin leather, either. You want a bit of body in it.
If you are determined to do things your own way, I predict you will continue to be frustrated and continue to thrash about looking for solutions. If you stick with tried and true methods and equipment for now, your learning process will be much quicker and you will succeed. That's my last post on this thread.
IMHO you definitely need a clean hanging strop, pre-shave, though. Pasted balsa or actually pasted anything does not smooth and align the edge the way a clean hanging leather strop does.
Yes, it is advisable to go cheap for your first strop, but not THAT cheap. Have you looked at www.whippeddog.com yet? Larry's Poor Man Strop Kit is specifically made for use as a newbie's first strop and is about as cheap as you can go and still get worthwhile results. I am not a fan of CrOx on balsa, preferring diamond, but you may find the green paste on balsa to be satisfactory. The leather strop itself is nothing fancy but it is expendable so if you slice it up, no big deal. You will want to upgrade after a few weeks, but it will get you through the learning process.
I love going as cheap as possible, but there are limits on how far you can go and still get decent results. The best advice I can give you on learning to straight shave is to do like everyone else does, for the first month or two, before you depart from the beaten path and do your own experiments. It is hard enough to learn when you are using tried and true methods. When you randomly try stuff that has not proven to give good results, you are asking for more frustration.
If you are going to make a strop, why not make a hanging strop? You will want three chicago screws for the top end, and a sturdy D ring. Get these from a saddle shop. The bottom end just leave plain. This is called a barber end. Fold the leather over the straight side of the D ring, and drill three holes for the chicago screws, then put them in. Attach a dog chain clip, leather or paracord lanyard, whatever, to the D ring for hanging. The reason for three chicago screws is if your strop develops cupping, you can slightly enlarge the two holes at the sides to slack the sides even with the center. The center chicago screw then bears the same strain as the side ones and the strop is flat. Also, with the barber end, you can put more pull on the center if needed, by bending the end over your knuckle. Choice of leather for your first strop is not critical but generally a vegetable tanned leather is used, and the leather must be smooth and free of wrinkles. Be sure to bevel the side edges. There is a tool for this but I forgot what it is called. Sandpaper will work, though. Don't use super thin leather, either. You want a bit of body in it.
If you are determined to do things your own way, I predict you will continue to be frustrated and continue to thrash about looking for solutions. If you stick with tried and true methods and equipment for now, your learning process will be much quicker and you will succeed. That's my last post on this thread.
First if it were not for Chinese equipment, I would not have stepped into straight shaving. If I were to buy a quality straight razor I would go for a TI or something boutique as a Jerry Stark D2. I will get a whipped dog razor, only to see how differently honed they are from mine. I am using quite a few hones.
1. Carborundum 1000/4000
2. Whetstone 6000
3. 10000 water stone
4. 12K DMT on order.
5. Paddle strop/hanging strop
6. Newspaper hone.
I miss a good 8K hone, and I want one that is a large size. This is not just about going cheap, this is a lot of equipment. Once, my technique and kit are set, I will go for the best. But will not invest in more than 3 razors. I think in straight razors everyone needs to mix and match the kit a bit, since not everyone can afford teh best at get go. And neither is it desirable.
1. Carborundum 1000/4000
2. Whetstone 6000
3. 10000 water stone
4. 12K DMT on order.
5. Paddle strop/hanging strop
6. Newspaper hone.
I miss a good 8K hone, and I want one that is a large size. This is not just about going cheap, this is a lot of equipment. Once, my technique and kit are set, I will go for the best. But will not invest in more than 3 razors. I think in straight razors everyone needs to mix and match the kit a bit, since not everyone can afford teh best at get go. And neither is it desirable.
DMT makes a 12k diamond? Never seen that before.
Here's what you have to look forward to, except worse:
Note the degrading effect off higher grit diamond plates.
8k DMT
8k DMT
325 DMT
325 DMT
I guess I assumed you plan to progress to 12k DMT from a 10k waterstone?
It's DMD... oops. It's a Chinese whetstone manufacturer. It's a good size stone 200*75*16MM
& the cheapest I could find for that size.
I have used a DMD chinese whetstone since past 2 years, and it is good enough.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DMD-1000-3000-6000-12000-Grit-Professional-Diamond-resin-grindstone-Knife-Sharpener-Sharpening-Grinding-Stone-Whetstone/32565315771.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.124.v2KB9J
& the cheapest I could find for that size.
I have used a DMD chinese whetstone since past 2 years, and it is good enough.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DMD-1000-3000-6000-12000-Grit-Professional-Diamond-resin-grindstone-Knife-Sharpener-Sharpening-Grinding-Stone-Whetstone/32565315771.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.124.v2KB9J
Am I seeing those pics right? The 325 is smoother by far? Was the 8k broke in?
Hopefully dmd(lol) does it better.
Hopefully dmd(lol) does it better.
According to the study, they were both broken-in with the same effort before testing.
Long story. See my thread "Got the scope out again" for discussion about it. Basically his results don't match up with anything I've seen in ten years using DMT's: Except when I deliberately damage the razor on the hone, or use a razor with a blown temper. I'm now able to scope to almost 2kx and not seeing the slightest hint of the damage he's showing as ridiculously massive (some scars filling 80%+ of the FOV) at 1-5kx.
I'm also not able to see the strop you've got. Alibaba just keeps trying to show me women in thong bikini's. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. But if it's the one strop I remember seeing on Alibaba ($3 or so, really short with huge stitching), that strop is of less use than stropping on your pant leg, literally. Just strop on your pant leg instead.
As for not stropping. I've been straight shaving for a decade. Honing for more than twice that. If you think a razor is sharper coming off a stone vs coming off a strop, then you are incapable of stropping. It's that simple. Stropping has been used by almost the entirety of the bladed tool wielding human race for centuries, probably thousands of years. There is more empirical evidence that it is effective than someone could undo in a thousand lifetimes. It is the height of foolishness for someone to presume that because they don't understand the function of stropping, it is unnecessary or detrimental. I don't understand how a rocket engine works. That doesn't mean that the rocket I build with the engine out of my old '77 Impala is superior to the ones nasa builds.
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