Daily razor care to maintain edge

I think where this interesting thread is going (based on the OP's feedback) is likely a honing hobbyists perspective (someone who is chasing the BEST possible edge) - meaning precise 16.5 degree angle, 100x magnification and examination of stria, high grit synth usage to get a perfect edge...

I have met a few of these very eccentric folks and certainly appreciate their scientific approach to the edge of a razor. Much like Seraphim mentioned, however, this precise edge may not translate into a great shave. Having the most comfortable shaving edge and having the most precise edge are two mutually exclusive and equally entertaining passions though it is rare you get all of both at the same time! Stropping of course applies to what one may perceive as a comfortable edge at the expense of outright precision.

I'm a recovering microscope addict.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/205309-scope-pics?highlight=porn

Seraphim said:

I'm a recovering microscope addict.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/205309-scope-pics?highlight=porn

Click to expand...

That's insane.....

Why would not want to strop before (and after) every use, to have and keep the keenest edge for shaving possible.

Some people are just lazy -

pundi64 said:

Why would not want to strop before (and after) every use, to have and keep the keenest edge for shaving possible.

Some people are just lazy -

Click to expand...

This is not about being lazy ...this is about keeping a "perfect" edge at all times....some would look at stropping as being lazy instead of using a high grit finishing material to re-keen the edge.

Perhaps the truth behind stropping is to do nothing but clean the micro scratches left behind, from the honing process, of shaving debris so the edge is "clean" for the next use.

Im not debating years of usage by barbers etc...just trying to delve into the art or science of keeping a perfect edge for the longest possible...compared to other instruments of sharpness [one doesn't strop skates and you could shave with my Olympic speed skate blades that are sharpened by hand....one doesn't strop chisels or planes and they are sharped by hand...etc]

6Cuda6 said:

...this is about keeping a "perfect" edge at all times....]

Click to expand...

One of our own highly respected experts shaved daily over 130 times with stropping only. Here's the thread... http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/296942-How-Many-Shaves?

I think your honemeister with no name is leading you astray.

I know nothing about skate blades, but every decent woodworker strops chisels and plane knives. Here's an article from "Tools for Woodworking", if you are interested. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/529/title/The+Tools+of+Stropping

Thanks Ronnie I'll definitely give those a read!

Not saying stropping isn't effective at doing something like maintaining the blade....just debating the effectiveness of such an inaccurate practice on such a perfectly honed edge.

It just reads to me like painting a car with a paint gun for the base coat perfect than using a roller to put the clear coat on because we are only going to wet sand and buff it till it's smooth....

Ps: I'm not going to post anyone's name that I don't know but runs a legitimate business and has posted some informed on a public media server.

Stropping is necessary for daily use, I have tested this by not stroppping and after just a few days it's not a pleasant shave, going to the hone varies but from my understanding you should be able to go 60-75 shaves with proper stropping before a hone is needed for a touchup, I can't verify this as I am a honing junkie so I never go more than 7-10 shave before touching up on a hone.

I think the reason this sounds ok to you is that you have kind of a flawed analogy going here. Stropping and honing are not the same thing, or even really related.

Honing is about removing metal to get that perfect edge.

Stropping is about aligning that perfect edge so it is straight and without distortion.

As you shave with a razor the edge stays sharp but gets bent back and forth, out of alignment. It is micron scale and takes very little force to distort. Stropping re-aligns the edge, and this greatly increases its effectiveness.

It greatly improves the shave for me. I encourage you to try it both ways.

Put another way - that perfect edge you honed is plenty sharp - but it is all bent back and forth out of alignment from pressure, even just coming off the hone. Stropping fixes that.

It's always about where the rubber meets the road, or the razor meets the face. I like to examine things skeptically, and have done so with stropping. I enjoy stropping, but I don't do it because I enjoy it. I do it because I've mastered it (to the level that I perceive as fast and effective). I have experienced my best edges getting better for several shaves/strops before peaking. For me the jury is in.

I have seen, under high magnification, the burnishing that changes the edge. Aggressive but benign cleaning is probably a good thing too.

Shaving can obviously be done without stropping. Different strokes, as they say. On the best edges, it improves them, while the lesser edges stay lesser. But that's my honing on my razors.

stoop said:

Put another way - that perfect edge you honed is plenty sharp - but it is all bent back and forth out of alignment from pressure, even just coming off the hone. Stropping fixes that.

Click to expand...

This I believe...alignment of the edge makes sense.

Even on a newly honed blade, stropping will improve the sharpness. The HHT will usually increase one degree after stropping, I find.

Legion said:

Even on a newly honed blade, stropping will improve the sharpness. The HHT will usually increase one degree after stropping, I find.

Click to expand...

+1. I've had blades that would not HHT pre-strop but would after strop, too. It's a good indication the blade is getting there but is not quite done on the hone.

I think a lot has to do with the thickness of your beard, regarding being able to only strop for more than 5-10 uses. I would consider mine very thick, and hard on razors. I refresh the edge (8k then pastes and takes 5 min) with my regimen every 3-4 uses, and strop 40-80 laps before each use. Beyond that, the blade is just skipping over hair and pulling others. The fact that I use pastes to microbevel the edge means that my edge should be more durable than people who strictly use stones then strop.

The beard hair microchips the blade to various degrees, depending on the density and thickness of facial hair, and the geometry of your edge, based on how you get your blade shave ready. This has been my story with Sheffield, Solingen, and Japanese steel. I feel like those who can "comfortably shave" after 5-10 uses with only stropping have thinner hair or a lower threshold for comfortable shave.

No one pointed this out so far, so I thought I'd add it.

I think if a razor needs to be refreshed after 3 or 4 shaves, there's something wrong. I don't think any beard can kill a proper edge on a properly used razor in 3 or 4 shaves. [MENTION=44174]Doc226[/MENTION] had a TI go 135 shaves, just stropping on clean linen and leather. I've had edges go at least 70 shaves.

I would also challenge the idea that shaving microchips the blade. I have an 800X microscope and have looked at 100s of blades pre and post shaving. I've produced micro chips on stones, but never shaving. I can get as many shaves as I want from stropping, blades usually go back to the hones because I like to hone them. LOL

Yep. Shaving does not chip the blade to any meaningful degree as far as I can tell (admittedly just up to 120x).

There's an excellent video explaining stropping that unfortunately we are no longer allowed to link. It will turn up if you youtube search "RazorEmporium Straight Razor Stropping FAQ" when you have a spare moment and are not enjoying B&B though

Try it both ways. Then tell us. Personally I would not think of shaving without stropping.

This is a very interesting thread. I am in the midst of seeing how far I can get a very keen tree-topping edge to stay that way with linen and stropping. Only recently have I been able to get edges this keen. Those edges have exposed my shaving and stropping weaknesses. Where I am is currently 4 or 5 shaves before the amazing tree-topping keenness starts to fade. It still tree-tops but not every hair effortlessly - BUT - the shaves are still great at that point. Its just the whiskers are not quite melting away as the first few shaves give me. I'm not trying to chase perfection but I do want to understand how I can keep that edge going to give me the comfort I want.

So many moving parts to this game, eh? Today I put a new Kanayama strop into play to see if I can get more shaves before I notice any degradation. I am also looking closely at my stropping technique as I surely dulled a few edges in the early days. Whose to say I am not still doing that but just not as badly anymore?

The fact that Doc got 100+ shaves from that TI razor tells me I have a ways to go with technique.

Best Sunday to all you gentleman and thanks for some great reading.