Totally new to honing/stropping but I noticed something curious.

I recently acquired a neat little SE travel safety razor that uses a fairly common for the time half hollow ground blade. I am slowly coming up to speed on maintaining a blade like this, basically a piece of a straight. Thanks to Bayamontate I have a properly sharpened blade and some diamond solution which I applied to the denim side (from an old pair of shorts) of a starter strop. The blade he honed for me is very sharp.

Being a hands on sort I dove in and am practicing honing on a corner chipped spare blade. Getting there but still a way to go on my technique.

This is probably nothing new to you guys more familiar with straights but I noticed that as the blade is getting closer to hair popping potential it seems to "stick" to the smooth leather of the strop on a pass. It is a very noticeable feeling since I keep one finger on the blade to steady it. It feels in perfect contact with the leather and drags like a vacuum has been created under it. Is that an indicator of getting close to a proper edge?

In short: probably.
What you actually are feeling is the feedback of the strop/hone "maxing out"; giving the sharpest edge it can. The actual shave readiness depends on the medium you are sliding the blade across; that "suction" on a 1k stone is in my books nowhere near comfortable shave, but on a finishing stone it tells me when i'm "there".
Never had that sensation on a strop (not in a noticeable quantity anyway), but then again, i don't use diamond pastes. On my Scrupleworks strop the draw is "magnetic" from the start, but that's a little different feeling IMO.

Also worth noting is that in my experience not all hones give such feedback, and on those it's very hard to tell when i've maxed out it's potential.

Charun said:

In short: probably.
What you actually are feeling is the feedback of the strop/hone "maxing out"; giving the sharpest edge it can. The actual shave readiness depends on the medium you are sliding the blade across; that "suction" on a 1k stone is in my books nowhere near comfortable shave, but on a finishing stone it tells me when i'm "there".
Never had that sensation on a strop (not in a noticeable quantity anyway), but then again, i don't use diamond pastes. On my Scrupleworks strop the draw is "magnetic" from the start, but that's a little different feeling IMO.

Also worth noting is that in my experience not all hones give such feedback, and on those it's very hard to tell when i've maxed out it's potential.

Click to expand...

Thanks Charun. I'm using the paste on the opposite side where I glued some denim shorts material. Still experimenting but haven't applied anything beyond some mineral oil to keep the smooth side conditioned. I'll be shaving (very carefully) with the blade this morning after some yard work and a shower. Hopefully I am close to achieving proper technique. My first attempts resulted in an edge that wouldn't cut butter.

Not ready for prime time. Nowhere near sharp enough. Cuts hair all right but they resist. Back to the drawing board.

HDSledge said:

Not ready for prime time. Nowhere near sharp enough. Cuts hair all right but they resist. Back to the drawing board.

Click to expand...

Well, it's still better than "won't cut butter".

I think you might be concentrating too much on the finishing, and not enough on the bevel setting/refining stages, as you should be able to cut hair (not comfortablty and with some resistance) straight off a bevel setter stone (e.g. 1k hone).

Charun said:

Well, it's still better than "won't cut butter".

I think you might be concentrating too much on the finishing, and not enough on the bevel setting/refining stages, as you should be able to cut hair (not comfortablty and with some resistance) straight off a bevel setter stone (e.g. 1k hone).

Click to expand...

I think you may have hit the nail right on the head. The blade I am learning on is old (not corroded) and I read somewhere that the bevel on vintage used blades will probably have to be reset. Correct?

I have a 2k hone, will it be sufficient to set the bevel? Understand it will take more laps but is there an additional benefit to starting with 1k?

Appreciate the info. <0

2k should work fine for that. Use a little bit of pressure, and then gradually reduce to just enough pressure to keep contact with the stone when the edge starts to shave arm hair nicely. You might consider lightly drawing the edge across the side of a mid-range hone to kill it, so you know when you have a new edge formed. Many people fold their edge over on glass to accomplish the same thing, but I don't like the idea of folding steel over. It has to work fine, because some really good honers do it, though. What make of 2k do you have?

2k will set the bevel just fine. Takes a bit longer than a 1k, is all. But if you want to set it at 1k and dont have or want to buy a 1k stone, just glue some 1k sandpaper to a piece of heavy glass. Be sure to chamfer the edges or you will probably catch a cut or two. Obviously, you are not limited to 1k, either.

spoken36 said:

What make of 2k do you have?

Click to expand...

I bought a Taidea 2 sided corundum 600/2000. Only 25 bucks but I figured since I am learning it wouldn't make much sense to buy an expensive stone right away (or does it?). Also have a 3k/8k same brand on the way. Any feedback on the cheaper stones such as these?

I plan on trying lapping film too out of curiosity. I ordered 5 9x13 sheets 12, 9, 3, 1, .3 microns for $12 bucks. So much to learn and try. I have a couple spare blades now so I can try different methods and compare.

When I was a kid I was always fascinated with sharpening knives but I never learned proper technique. It was always on the fly angles and a terrible edge was the result. The edge I'm getting on these blades now would be very dangerous in the hands of a youngster. I was lucky back then I couldn't get my knives very sharp. Heck I've nicked myself a couple times already learning to hone and I'm being very careful.

Hey btw I'm running out of places on my arms to test the darn blade. Will dog hair work just as well?

hah, man, I know what it's like to run out of arm hair! Shave the dog!!

I have no experience with those stones. Really, with any stone, you need to learn what it can do and what it won't. A source of magnification helps a lot. Do a bunch of honing on cheap Gold Dollars, and learn what your stones will do. I have a hunch that you want to be careful and develop a very light touch. Watch the edge to see if the stone causes microchips. I have a cheap Chinese stone that does that and is useless for razors.

If they don't cut the mustard for razors, they may be great for knives and tools.

HDSledge said:

I bought a Taidea 2 sided corundum 600/2000. Only 25 bucks but I figured since I am learning it wouldn't make much sense to buy an expensive stone right away (or does it?). Also have a 3k/8k same brand on the way. Any feedback on the cheaper stones such as these?

I plan on trying lapping film too out of curiosity. I ordered 5 9x13 sheets 12, 9, 3, 1, .3 microns for $12 bucks. So much to learn and try. I have a couple spare blades now so I can try different methods and compare.

When I was a kid I was always fascinated with sharpening knives but I never learned proper technique. It was always on the fly angles and a terrible edge was the result. The edge I'm getting on these blades now would be very dangerous in the hands of a youngster. I was lucky back then I couldn't get my knives very sharp. Heck I've nicked myself a couple times already learning to hone and I'm being very careful.

Hey btw I'm running out of places on my arms to test the darn blade. Will dog hair work just as well?

Click to expand...

Shell can make mad suction on wedge or thicker blades. Horsehide too depending on the grain. All depends on the strop and the blade profile.

On

You can have a highly polished bevel that will 'stick' to a polished surface, but that doesn't mean the bevel's faces are meeting at a 'point'.

spoken36 said:

hah, man, I know what it's like to run out of arm hair! Shave the dog!!

Click to expand...

Ah, the ol' "honers' mange"

Gamma said:

You can have a highly polished bevel that will 'stick' to a polished surface, but that doesn't mean the bevel's faces are meeting at a 'point'.

Click to expand...

This is true. However, if the bevel was set properly, going a little further beyond peak stiction will usually do the job and leave the edge with a nice tight apex.

Gamma said:

You can have a highly polished bevel that will 'stick' to a polished surface, but that doesn't mean the bevel's faces are meeting at a 'point'.

Click to expand...

+1. It took me a long time to realize that many of my early poor results were a beautiful, highly polished \_/ and not a \/

Since I am so new to this I seriously doubt I started with a properly set bevel. The comments about a nice polished surface with a not so great initial bevel make a lot of sense. Trying again.

stoop said:

+1. It took me a long time to realize that many of my early poor results were a beautiful, highly polished \_/ and not a \/

Click to expand...

Exactly - that's why I feel that banking on 'tells' that are inherently prone to yielding false positives is asking for trouble. Not to mention the myriad issues beind making assumptions or imagining what peak anything is without having enough experience to have a solid benchmark to rely on.

I think I will make use of a usb microscope and compare a known sharp blade with the one I am working on before I have at it. It may reveal exactly what you are referring to about a nice looking but ineffective edge.

HDSledge said:

I think I will make use of a usb microscope and compare a known sharp blade with the one I am working on before I have at it. It may reveal exactly what you are referring to about a nice looking but ineffective edge.

Click to expand...

The most important thing is being CERTAIN that the bevel is set, heel to toe. Every point along the entire edge. No guessing, none of that "it should be set by now". Then, you know you are indeed polishing a "V".

The microscope will help a lot. It won't always tell you the whole story, but I do consider it a very useful and important tool.

While not a universal technique, dulling the edge on glass will ensure any edge achieved is from your own sweat and tears. Some unfortunate souls(like myself) habitually test the same area of the razor, which just happened to have some semblance of an edge. So despite rubbing the darn razor for days on finishing stones I never reached the apex.