Plisson synthetic brush ring of death - or how do I remove the knot safely

I have a cade/locc/plisson brush. The handle started peeling so I opted for new one from WD (24mm). I have removed the knot w/o issue. It is a 24mm knot (actually the ring part measured a bit over 23mm but the lip on the ring is 27mm or so).

The biggest problem with this brush is that the loft is too high and other user's always complained about the "floppiness". I personally did not care as I thought the brush was ok but I see their point and would like to "fix" it here. But anyways, since I am attempting this I would like to know what it will take the remove the knot ring w/o damaging the brush itself? Some pics follow:



The knot is glued in pretty good. I could try a dremel while being very careful. If I do get the knot out successfully I will probably have to buy another handle since the hair itself is less than 24mm, probably 22mm. The depth of the metal ring is about 13-14mm but if I do get it off I could then get a 20mm drilled down handle and reset the loft that way.

There are a couple methods I see

1) mechanical - dremel, xacto tools, etc

2) steam it out

Anyone done this and can provide guidance?

How about sending that assembly to Larry at WD and see if he can put it in a new handle. Lower the loft and thereby improve the floppiness.

I'm the MOST LEAST qualified person here to speak about brushes but it seems to me that taking off the ring would destroy the brush.

I'm sure smarter folk than I will know the truth...

I don't disagree with you at all.

I am now thinking that maybe grind the upper lip of the ring down flush with the rest of the ring body. I do this it will fit right into my new handle with depth to spare. I will have to protect the brush while grinding though.

I do have a new handle coming from Larry that is 24mm, 20mm deep. I wanted a project to do on my own.

Removing the lip is exactly what came to my mind initially as well, only I wouldn't grind it off. I would use a hacksaw blade to cut just below the lip and carefully file it smooth.

Use a pair of snips to take off the ring and then file/sand the remain edge down.

This is a new one to me as far as brush specific goes. But I do woodworking and etc. I would think that leaving the metal ring alone and slowly adjusting the softer material of the handle would be wiser. You will need to, likely, drill deeper into the handle anyway. The idea of dremel/grinding the ring isn't a good one, I think as it's going to expose the glue and the bristles on the edge to quite a bit of heat. It's also going to be hard, I think, to keep it round and smooth (and getting file that close to the brush. . . scary). Keep us up to date with what you try and how it comes out! Good job so far!

shyurngsfriend said:

This is a new one to me as far as brush specific goes. But I do woodworking and etc. I would think that leaving the metal ring alone and slowly adjusting the softer material of the handle would be wiser. You will need to, likely, drill deeper into the handle anyway. The idea of dremel/grinding the ring isn't a good one, I think as it's going to expose the glue and the bristles on the edge to quite a bit of heat. It's also going to be hard, I think, to keep it round and smooth (and getting file that close to the brush. . . scary). Keep us up to date with what you try and how it comes out! Good job so far!

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He wants to loft the knot lower. You cannot do that with the ring still there. If you were to drill the handle large enough to accept the ring the brush would still be hugely floppy.

Just re-read your posts.
If the metal ring on the knot is about a 22 and the handle from Larry is a nominal 24, it may be that the knot drops in with just enough snugness to make it work un-altered...

that would be

I don't have the handle yet but I figure the ring portion is going to fit with a slight gap around the circumference. It is the lip that is the wild card. I will try using snips and see how that goes. Main thing is that I will cut/grind/file it just enough that it will fit unimpeded into the new handle. I am hoping to get maybe 5mm of lowered loft here. I will try to post pics/story as I go. As long as the handle is truly 24mm opening, or slightly more, it should all go smoothly.

paintflinger said:

He wants to loft the knot lower. You cannot do that with the ring still there. If you were to drill the handle large enough to accept the ring the brush would still be hugely floppy.

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Ahh. Yes that is true! (and that might well weaken the insertion - bad idea on my part). Given my correct thoughts, the few of them, and your excellent point I think I'd tend toward having the knot reset by someone and completing the project from there. Your correct point re the knot being floppy, wouldn't it still tend to be floppy if you just insert the knot past that point. Doesn't the knot need to be completely reglued. I guess I already knew a brush is complex (given what we pay for them). It's obviously a LOT of handwork. Keep the comments coming- corrections also- this is very interesting and I'm learning a lot from you all!

paintflinger said:

Use a pair of snips to take off the ring and then file/sand the remain edge down.

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+ 1. The metal peels away very easily.

Rudy Vey has removed ghee metal cup I believe. He might be a good resource.

I left mine on when I set into a new handle. I don't have any pictures, but it came out well

Update: I opted to leave the ring alone and just installed the brush into a new handle. Removing that ring was going to be difficult so I wussed out. Given that I can buy a RR Plissoft for $10-12 and that it fixes the loft issue I had a hard time justifying the ROI and effort. Here is the completed brush. I also put in two quarters when I epoxied the knot back in place to add more weight (about 12grams) and as a spacer. So for the fix it cost me $13 USD for the new handle, $6 for the epoxy and $0.50. Almost $20 on top of the $30-35 I spent to buy the original. This is why ROI is not practical here but I hated to see the brush go to waste. All that money I have been "saving" wet shaving just went here



And so ends this chapter.

I like that handle a lot!

It looks like you ended up with a really nice brush. It was worth it. And you are just getting started.

imbored2deth said:

I don't disagree with you at all.

I am now thinking that maybe grind the upper lip of the ring down flush with the rest of the ring body. I do this it will fit right into my new handle with depth to spare. I will have to protect the brush while grinding though.

I do have a new handle coming from Larry that is 24mm, 20mm deep. I wanted a project to do on my own.

Click to expand...

That's what I'd do. You could protect the knot by sliding a small piece of copper pipe over it.

After doing this little project I realized that there may be another way to lower the loft, kind of brute force. I would have had to create a second glue plug, right above the ring. This would have meant that I would need a way to keep the hairs in place in order to cut off the metal ring section and then re-glue. I think you would need to expose the bottom of the hairs so that all ends get some amount of glue. The tricky part is how to cut off the ring and keeping the knot together at the same time. I had thought about using a lot of rubber bands or maybe some kind of cylindrical pipe clamp. But I was too chicken. I did use the brush this morning and it was fine so it works ok.

imbored2deth said:

After doing this little project I realized that there may be another way to lower the loft, kind of brute force. I would have had to create a second glue plug, right above the ring. This would have meant that I would need a way to keep the hairs in place in order to cut off the metal ring section and then re-glue. I think you would need to expose the bottom of the hairs so that all ends get some amount of glue. The tricky part is how to cut off the ring and keeping the knot together at the same time. I had thought about using a lot of rubber bands or maybe some kind of cylindrical pipe clamp. But I was too chicken. I did use the brush this morning and it was fine so it works ok.

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I think you're complicating this a bit too much. You don't need to take off the whole metal cup and re-glue the knot, you just need to snip off the metal lip (ring). Once that's off, you can set it however deep you want. If you want to protect the knot, take the center of a toilet paper roll, slice it down one side, wrap it around the knot, and then tape it. Instant protect from the knot. You can easily snip off the metal lip in this case.

paintflinger said:

You don't need to take off the whole metal cup and re-glue the knot, you just need to snip off the metal lip (ring). Once that's off, you can set it however deep you want.

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Yes but this idea is dependent upon how deep the handle can be drilled. My handle was drilled 20mm but when I set the ring in there there was no way the brush would have touched the sides (and made the loft more tight). I would have been left with a quite a bit of gap along the perimeter. If the handle was 30mm then your idea would work.

The metal ring and cup are completely separate from the knot.