I trolled through 10 pages of thread history in the honing section and didn't see this issue yet so I thought I would invite everyone to explain if honing your own razors has changed your choice of soaps and if so, why. The only soaps I've used so far have been Cella (my daily), Proraso, and VDH. Kind of wondering if I need to keep looking. Can't wait to hear, Lightfoot out!
Soap Selection From A Honing Perspective.
- Thread starter lightfoot
- Start date
I have one soap that I took out of my shaving rotation because it was a PIA to make a good shaving lather with it (and it's kind of drying post-shave), but it makes a lather suitable for honing easily enough. So I keep it with my ark.
When I was DE shaving I used MWF, tabac and castle Forbes cream. When I made the switch to straight I switched to Valabro shave stick and have never looked back. It's all I use.
I use the same soaps & creams, just mix them a little wetter for a straight shave.
When I sold/trialed soaps I definitely noticed a very big divergence in feedback of straight vs DE users. I would say that Straight users tend to appreciate a heavier, wetter lather; whereas DE users didn't mind if the lather was significantly thinner (and surprisingly to me, far drier), so long as it still provided coverage and stability.
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- #7
I think that perhaps this goes to the root of the overall frame of the conversation that I'm trying to move forward here. With some exceptions most straights have a keenness that is typically a touch below a DE/ shavette level. So I'm kind of making a bit of an assumption that straight edge keenness is going to create a greater demand on what the straight shaver needs to get out of their soaps. Of course one has to keep in mind good stropping as well, and while I won't get into that here I did find the Science Of Shaving article rather informative to this end as far as removal of any micro foiling which is a condition that has to be met before a discussion about soaps and bristle type even becomes relevant.
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- Thread starter
- #8
Sorry, I meant the Science Of Sharp.
I think it has a lot more to do with a DE shave being a one to two minute process and a straight shave being a five to ten minute process. It's a bit more "worth it" to build a thicker lather. More over, the guard of the DE may well push away thicker lathers and minimize the function of the soap before the blade contacts, thinner lather may even be necessary. Mind you, I've not DE shaved in years. Straights get far, far, far, far sharper than DE blades, however. I've tested extensively, and while the sharpest reputed ones are passable in comparison to a straight shave, they are still very dull next to a well honed straight off a top notch stone.
Most people who believe otherwise convince themselves that the coating that makes the DE blade sharper somehow interferes with all the tests that show the DE is duller, even though removing it still doesn't allow DE's to perform on par with straights. It's not something worth arguing any more frankly. The same way you can't convince someone with a lousy finisher that their razor isn't cutting their face because it's "too sharp", it's just a crappy stone that leaves an edge with a lot of gouges in it.
Most people who believe otherwise convince themselves that the coating that makes the DE blade sharper somehow interferes with all the tests that show the DE is duller, even though removing it still doesn't allow DE's to perform on par with straights. It's not something worth arguing any more frankly. The same way you can't convince someone with a lousy finisher that their razor isn't cutting their face because it's "too sharp", it's just a crappy stone that leaves an edge with a lot of gouges in it.
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- Thread starter
- #10
Well, keep in mind that I get the impression that many members on the forum have such capable finishers mentioned but many more do not or may be in the 'don't know how to use them camp.' Sadly I'm not exactly sure where I fall within this continuum. But perhaps what could be inferred from your post is that no soap however good will cover the shortfall of a sub-par edge.
A Chosera 12k or Shapton 15k or other high grit synths are fully capable of honing an edge more keen than your average DE.
So is film. So are many JNATs and coticules.
My stones aren't the problem. I simply am not consistent enough yet myself to commonly beat a Feather. I probably can regularly beat a Derby though
FWIW Feather blades seem substantially sharper to me than many other DE blades; part of this is likely that they are thinner than most DE blades (someone measured them with a digital caliper - I forget the specific measurements however), part is probably the bevel, part is probably the steel. Someone posted microscope images of them a while back (along with other sharp blades like Personna Reds) and they stood out, along with Personnas.
So is film. So are many JNATs and coticules.
My stones aren't the problem. I simply am not consistent enough yet myself to commonly beat a Feather. I probably can regularly beat a Derby though
FWIW Feather blades seem substantially sharper to me than many other DE blades; part of this is likely that they are thinner than most DE blades (someone measured them with a digital caliper - I forget the specific measurements however), part is probably the bevel, part is probably the steel. Someone posted microscope images of them a while back (along with other sharp blades like Personna Reds) and they stood out, along with Personnas.
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I've been using Stirling unscented beef tallow shaving soap as a default when using lather on a natural sharpening stone and Kiss My Face hand soap blended with a little water, following Modine, on a barber's hone. The Stirling soap gives lots of cushion on the natural stone, ensuring a light touch there.
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Definitely. A great soap can make a good edge feel great. But no soap will make a poor edge feel good.
If we're thinking of the same article, I vaguely recall them testing some vintage blades as well and finding they were ground to angles closer to straights (17-19*), whereas modern ones tend to be double-beveled into the low-mid 20's range. Made me curious about how a restored vintage DE, with the much finer grind angle would perform.
