critique my technique

tetraodon · Apr 4, 2016

this last shave was bad, irritation and weepers all over. so i thought i would pop over here and get some critique.
i try to shower every time i shave, i let my face soak and scrub my face in the shower. while my brush soaks.
then i splash more hot water on my face, load my brush and lather up.
first is WTG, then relather, then ATG, then retouch as needed. i rinse my face with warm water and pat dry. while i soak a wash cloth in cold water. i apply the cold cloth a few times. then i apply witch hazel, and sometimes after shave.

im pretty sure my bad shave was due to angle issues, it means ill have to slow down and pay attention again. i am face lathering but i might go back to bowl lathering to help my lather quality.

robs001 · Apr 5, 2016

Just some suggestions to try:

1. Close the blade angle right down. Maximum one spine's width from your face. Hold the blade totally flat when shaving against the grain on the neck, even.
2. If not already, use very little pressure. A 'push' is needed to move the blade forwards, though.
3. Shave WTG then XTG (from your ear to nose direction) before shaving against the grain. Maybe even leave ATG until you've got the rest cracked.

You can go over problem spots many times as long as you do it gently.

As you've got the prep routine sorted, it could be technique. This is assuming your blade is properly prepared.

Good luck and back off a little

spoken36 · Apr 5, 2016

+1 to all the above.

I'll add, there is a big difference between an edge that can shave, and one that really is keen, IMO. The problem with one that isn't really keen is that it 1) pulls the skin up by the follicles, risking tiny cuts, and 2) it forces you to work too hard for the edge to "catch" the stubble to try and get a "good shave". If it really is keen, you can use better technique that has the edge just very lightly wipes the cream from your skin, and concurrently "just happens to" squeegee the whiskers off, too. BUT if it really is keen, you MUST use good technique, because that baby will remove anything in the way, post haste.

So, a great shave is dependent on a very light touch. And a very light touch is dependent on a very keen edge. I try to verify those two things.

Slash McCoy · Apr 5, 2016

Why go ATG? I don't, unless I need my shave to last two days, like when I am flying to the other side of the planet. Two WTG passes properly executed makes for a perfectly acceptable shave, to me. Of course my edges are probably sharper than the average razor edge, and that makes a difference. As already stated, ATG calls for extremely low shave angle, and you should be flat on the skin or very very nearly so. I like to just barely not drag the spine on my face. It seems to cause more irritation when I drag the spine. I think it is because it causes the blade to travel in fits and starts, not because of actual friction with the spine.

I bet if you really work on getting a sharper edge, and post finish on lapped balsa with a TINY amount of .1u diamond paste rubbed in well, you will find that 2 or 3 WTG passes will give you a nice shave and you will not need to go ATG. Otherwise, try two WTG passes and THEN go ATG. One WTG pass just isn't enough. You want beard reduced to a minimum before attempting ATG.

If you can find my pasted balsa thread, my method is there. I never have to re-hone my razors. The balsa keeps the edge perfect for me. Note that failure to lap the balsa, not using enough laps, using too much paste, or trying to get by with inferior abrasives, will give you less than optimum results.

Also, try not scrubbing the face so much, and watch the hot water... warm water will do the job. Some guys actually love a cold water shave, so you might try it. Hot water softens whiskers, but it also softens skin. You might be setting yourself up for excessive exfoliation.

No, bowl lather is not necessarily better lather at all. I face lather. I figure if I shave my face, I should lather my face. I dont shave a bowl, so I dont lather a bowl, either.

Are you blooming your soap? It really helps.

Lmarkow · Apr 5, 2016

I have noticed that as my edge heads south, I get more weepers. I think this is because I may be using pressure to compensate. Perhaps a touchup is in order?

Are you stretching your skin? If so, are you stretching your skin where you're actually shaving? I remember when I started that I would move my razor hand to a different area on my face, without moving my stretching hand. Early on, my technique was not nearly good enough to get away with this.

I find that it is easier to control the amount of water in my lather when it's mostly made in a scuttle.

W8lkinUSA · Apr 5, 2016

My initial experience -- or rather lack of -- proved that a slick lather helps greatly. Not too generous, yet not too sparse..... Great preparation is the key to a great shave. Practice, grasshopper..

I should also add that the mild Merkur 38C caused irritation where the 39c Sledgehammer did not..

tetraodon · Apr 5, 2016

robs001 said:
Just some suggestions to try:

1. Close the blade angle right down. Maximum one spine's width from your face. Hold the blade totally flat when shaving against the grain on the neck, even.
2. If not already, use very little pressure. A 'push' is needed to move the blade forwards, though.
3. Shave WTG then XTG (from your ear to nose direction) before shaving against the grain. Maybe even leave ATG until you've got the rest cracked.

You can go over problem spots many times as long as you do it gently.

As you've got the prep routine sorted, it could be technique. This is assuming your blade is properly prepared.

Good luck and back off a little

i realized that i left out some info, the WTG is with a straight, ATG is with my DE. i dont feel confident enough to do ATG with a straight yet. for some reason the spine width is easier than angle degree. its from whipped dog and i strop before and after each shave.

spoken36 said:
+1 to all the above.

I'll add, there is a big difference between an edge that can shave, and one that really is keen, IMO. The problem with one that isn't really keen is that it 1) pulls the skin up by the follicles, risking tiny cuts, and 2) it forces you to work too hard for the edge to "catch" the stubble to try and get a "good shave". If it really is keen, you can use better technique that has the edge just very lightly wipes the cream from your skin, and concurrently "just happens to" squeegee the whiskers off, too. BUT if it really is keen, you MUST use good technique, because that baby will remove anything in the way, post haste.

So, a great shave is dependent on a very light touch. And a very light touch is dependent on a very keen edge. I try to verify those two things.

ive tested the blade with a HHT and thumbnail test. it seams to be a good edge,

Slash McCoy said:
Why go ATG? I don't, unless I need my shave to last two days, like when I am flying to the other side of the planet. Two WTG passes properly executed makes for a perfectly acceptable shave, to me. Of course my edges are probably sharper than the average razor edge, and that makes a difference. As already stated, ATG calls for extremely low shave angle, and you should be flat on the skin or very very nearly so. I like to just barely not drag the spine on my face. It seems to cause more irritation when I drag the spine. I think it is because it causes the blade to travel in fits and starts, not because of actual friction with the spine.

I bet if you really work on getting a sharper edge, and post finish on lapped balsa with a TINY amount of .1u diamond paste rubbed in well, you will find that 2 or 3 WTG passes will give you a nice shave and you will not need to go ATG. Otherwise, try two WTG passes and THEN go ATG. One WTG pass just isn't enough. You want beard reduced to a minimum before attempting ATG.

If you can find my pasted balsa thread, my method is there. I never have to re-hone my razors. The balsa keeps the edge perfect for me. Note that failure to lap the balsa, not using enough laps, using too much paste, or trying to get by with inferior abrasives, will give you less than optimum results.

Also, try not scrubbing the face so much, and watch the hot water... warm water will do the job. Some guys actually love a cold water shave, so you might try it. Hot water softens whiskers, but it also softens skin. You might be setting yourself up for excessive exfoliation.

No, bowl lather is not necessarily better lather at all. I face lather. I figure if I shave my face, I should lather my face. I dont shave a bowl, so I dont lather a bowl, either.

Are you blooming your soap? It really helps.

i recently lapped the razor on pasted balsa strop from whipped dog which improved the HHT. i moved back to bowl lathering mostly because ive been feeling like my face lather has been lacking. what do you mean by blooming?

Lmarkow said:
I have noticed that as my edge heads south, I get more weepers. I think this is because I may be using pressure to compensate. Perhaps a touchup is in order?

Are you stretching your skin? If so, are you stretching your skin where you're actually shaving? I remember when I started that I would move my razor hand to a different area on my face, without moving my stretching hand. Early on, my technique was not nearly good enough to get away with this.

I find that it is easier to control the amount of water in my lather when it's mostly made in a scuttle.

im pretty sure im stretching my skin where i am shaving, but my hand that stretches gets in front my sight so ill have to experiment

W8lkinUSA said:
My initial experience -- or rather lack of -- proved that a slick lather helps greatly. Not too generous, yet not too sparse..... Great preparation is the key to a great shave. Practice, grasshopper..

I should also add that the mild Merkur 38C caused irritation where the 39c Sledgehammer did not..

still working on alot so we will see how well i can shave as time goes on

Slash McCoy · Apr 6, 2016

tetraodon said:
i recently lapped the razor on pasted balsa strop from whipped dog which improved the HHT. i moved back to bowl lathering mostly because ive been feeling like my face lather has been lacking. what do you mean by blooming?

Did you find my balsa strop thread? CrOx and FeOx are better than nothing but they dont compare to diamond. Also the balsa needs to be lapped for best results. And it sounds to me like you need more than just a little action on the balsa. Touch it up on a 12k Norton or a C12k, then hit .25u diamond on balsa, and then go with the .1u. Thereafter, just strop on the .1u after every shave. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/473580-How-To-Use-a-Pasted-Balsa-Strop.

Blooming means to let hot water stand on the soap for a few minutes before picking up soap with the brush.

You have an edge that shaves, but your edge can be much better and give much more efficient and comfortable shaves. Do you have any sort of finishing stone? If you are comfortable with the whole shave routine then if you are so inclined, it is time to start learning a little about honing, specifically doing touchup work with a finisher, when the blade starts getting dull.

The ideal edge for a complete newbie is different from the ideal edge for a shaver with a little experience. Ultra sharp is not your friend for your first half dozen shaves or so, for obvious reasons. Ultra sharpness is also something that takes a bit of care and attention to achieve, and most guys find that their own efforts yield better results than someone else's honing, once they have learned how to do it. The edge Larry put on your razor is a good solid edge that will get the job done, but he can't spend several hours on one razor getting it to the point of absolute sharpness, and now you have shaved with it a bunch of times. So it is time to take it to a new level, or at least back to the level it was at when you got it.

Work on edge improvement. And work on stretching the skin. For the closest shaves, pull the skin up against the grain. That unsheaths more of the whisker from the follicle.

tetraodon · Apr 6, 2016

Slash McCoy said:
Did you find my balsa strop thread? CrOx and FeOx are better than nothing but they dont compare to diamond. Also the balsa needs to be lapped for best results. And it sounds to me like you need more than just a little action on the balsa. Touch it up on a 12k Norton or a C12k, then hit .25u diamond on balsa, and then go with the .1u. Thereafter, just strop on the .1u after every shave. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/473580-How-To-Use-a-Pasted-Balsa-Strop.

Blooming means to let hot water stand on the soap for a few minutes before picking up soap with the brush.

You have an edge that shaves, but your edge can be much better and give much more efficient and comfortable shaves. Do you have any sort of finishing stone? If you are comfortable with the whole shave routine then if you are so inclined, it is time to start learning a little about honing, specifically doing touchup work with a finisher, when the blade starts getting dull.

The ideal edge for a complete newbie is different from the ideal edge for a shaver with a little experience. Ultra sharp is not your friend for your first half dozen shaves or so, for obvious reasons. Ultra sharpness is also something that takes a bit of care and attention to achieve, and most guys find that their own efforts yield better results than someone else's honing, once they have learned how to do it. The edge Larry put on your razor is a good solid edge that will get the job done, but he can't spend several hours on one razor getting it to the point of absolute sharpness, and now you have shaved with it a bunch of times. So it is time to take it to a new level, or at least back to the level it was at when you got it.

Work on edge improvement. And work on stretching the skin. For the closest shaves, pull the skin up against the grain. That unsheaths more of the whisker from the follicle.

i did read through it a bit, the paste i have is what ever came from whipped dog, i do not have any stones as of yet, but i am looking at getting some. i do try and stretch as much as i can, if i am doing a WTG on my cheek i stretch from the top of my side burns. thanks for the advice,

Slash McCoy · Apr 6, 2016

Slash McCoy said:
Did you find my balsa strop thread? CrOx and FeOx are better than nothing but they dont compare to diamond. Also the balsa needs to be lapped for best results. And it sounds to me like you need more than just a little action on the balsa. Touch it up on a 12k Norton or a C12k, then hit .25u diamond on balsa, and then go with the .1u. Thereafter, just strop on the .1u after every shave. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/473580-How-To-Use-a-Pasted-Balsa-Strop.

Blooming means to let hot water stand on the soap for a few minutes before picking up soap with the brush.

You have an edge that shaves, but your edge can be much better and give much more efficient and comfortable shaves. Do you have any sort of finishing stone? If you are comfortable with the whole shave routine then if you are so inclined, it is time to start learning a little about honing, specifically doing touchup work with a finisher, when the blade starts getting dull.

The ideal edge for a complete newbie is different from the ideal edge for a shaver with a little experience. Ultra sharp is not your friend for your first half dozen shaves or so, for obvious reasons. Ultra sharpness is also something that takes a bit of care and attention to achieve, and most guys find that their own efforts yield better results than someone else's honing, once they have learned how to do it. The edge Larry put on your razor is a good solid edge that will get the job done, but he can't spend several hours on one razor getting it to the point of absolute sharpness, and now you have shaved with it a bunch of times. So it is time to take it to a new level, or at least back to the level it was at when you got it.

Work on edge improvement. And work on stretching the skin. For the closest shaves, pull the skin up against the grain. That unsheaths more of the whisker from the follicle.

OOps,,, I meand 12k Naniwa not 12k Norton. Stupid spell checker.

Okay okay,,, actually, stupid pre-cappuccino-in-the-morning me.

Slash McCoy · Apr 6, 2016

tetraodon said:
i did read through it a bit, the paste i have is what ever came from whipped dog, i do not have any stones as of yet, but i am looking at getting some. i do try and stretch as much as i can, if i am doing a WTG on my cheek i stretch from the top of my side burns. thanks for the advice,

Okay, but remember it is a two pronged approach. You have to get your technique up to snuff but you also need to get your edge scary sharp if you want consistently good and comfortable shaves. Until your edge is good enough to get the desired results, you will not get the desired results.

Some guys like a coticule edge, though, even though they seldom qualify as "scary sharp". They are known to be very smooth and face-friendly edges. Just sayin, cause a coticule is really not an ideal beginner hone.

You won't get there by wishing for it. Gotta gitter done!

spoken36 · Apr 6, 2016

tetraodon said:
ive tested the blade with a HHT and thumbnail test. it seams to be a good edge,

Good call on checking the HHT. Think twice about thumbnail test, if you are checking the finished edge. That's a brutal test that I would only use to verify bevel set at about 1k, then do a few more strokes on the 1k to fix what the thumbnail might have done to the edge, before moving on up to the next stone.

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