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On fanboys and YMMV

In some of my more recent posts about, namely about Tabac and Haslinger soaps, I noticed an interesting trend among the comments. People tended to fall into three somewhat distinct categories. The "I agree"-ers, the "I think you're wrong, but hey! YMMV!", and the "YMMV, but you're full of it and here's why". The last category is what I classify as the classic 'fanboy' or 'hater' archetype. I personally fall into category 1 or 2 for most conversations, as it may become clear by the end of this post.

Fanboys and haters are not just limited to Haslinger or Tabac, no no no. They cover everything; including razors, soaps, aftershaves, creams, and pretty much anything you can think of. They're a rabid bunch and are not afraid to voice their opinions on their favorite products.

And they're not wrong to do so, at least not in this hobby. YMMV. Every product works differently for every person.

What I sometimes take issue with is people who hide behind YMMV to assert a position which is subjective as objective. That, or to put down somebody else's opinion simply because it differs from their own.

Fanboys and haters also seem to have an aversion to reading an entire post after finding something they don't like within the first few sentences, or forget that further explanations were ever given.

Now to some people it may seem that I am simply lashing out at some mean comments I've gotten. On the contrary, I genuinely enjoy every single comment I get. This is a wonderful community full of very helpful and friendly people I am proud to be a part of, there being very few exceptions to this rule.

I guess my final points would be these, and they don't just apply to fanboys and haters.

1) Remember, not everybody may have your oh so objectively exquisite taste.
2) That favorite product of yours may very well be the despised arch-nemesis to somebody else, and just because you love it or hate it doesn't mean everybody else has to.
3) When you read a scathing review of something you love, don't immediately jump into hater mode.
4) When you read a positive review of something you hate, don't assume they're and idiot for liking it.
5) The same facts you use to arrive at one conclusion may lead somebody else to a different one, or may not even be regarded as true.


Consider the true rule of YMMV, that everybody is different and entitled to their own opinion. Good day ladies and gentlemen, and pleasant shaves all around.




P.S.: Stirling rules! :biggrin1:
 

garyg

B&B membership has its percs
A well reasoned post, YMMV is overused, and often as a crutch to camouflage an bunghole's opinion .. but the most irritating fact of forum life is the members who don't read any of the posts, least of all the OP, and chime in with a plus 1 or such. I've been here and there for a while, should be used to it, but then again YMMV

PPS: What is Stirling?
 
Well said.

I would hope gentlemanly conduct would respect others opinions without the hater aspect.

I do know that some people use a product once and post a glowing or scathing review. Those types of reviews are generally a bit suspect given the reviewer's lack of experience with the product. I much more appreciate and value someone's review that gave the product a try for a few weeks (or longer) before deciding it is the best or worst thing ever.
 
So far everyone here has been pleasant and helpful. You should join a car forum or firearm forum if you want to really see strong opinions voiced in a less than gentlemanly fashion.

You are right though, Stirling rocks! So far around 90% of the soaps I have tried rock!
 
A well reasoned post, YMMV is overused, and often as a crutch to camouflage an bunghole's opinion .. but the most irritating fact of forum life is the members who don't read any of the posts, least of all the OP, and chime in with a plus 1 or such. I've been here and there for a while, should be used to it, but then again YMMV

PPS: What is Stirling?

There are a few initial abbreviations used in this forum I will never use, ymmv is one of them. The other is swmbo which I find very sexist and disrespectful, but I can get a thread on that one started later - after a bit more Blanton's maybe. Anyway the whole milage may vary thing is just so fraught with passive aggressive online abuse it almost makes any real intelligent, respectful disagreement almost pointless. People use it to state everyone has their own opinion, but then go on to say otherwise and so on.

You have a opinion about Haslinger, I have another. This is why for mine, and that is why for yours. Some will read carefully and understand the finer points of discourse, and opinion yet others will take quiet, cheap, shots while claiming an objective win for themselves.

Personally, I love a good disagreement about something I find passionate and am not afraid so say why this and why that. Maybe it comes off as a bit strong, but that's the nature of a disagreement sometime. And, I don't just jump into one just to do so, but rather when I feel I have something valuable to offer. There are so many great folks on this forum with a lot of experience and their opinions have taught me much, so I naturally want to share what I've learned from them.

Also, I apologize if my post in your Haslinger thread was a bit boorish. Like I said, I enjoy a good passionate disagreement when I feel there's intelligence to be garnered from both sides ;-)
 
A well reasoned post, YMMV is overused, and often as a crutch to camouflage an bunghole's opinion .. but the most irritating fact of forum life is the members who don't read any of the posts, least of all the OP, and chime in with a plus 1 or such. I've been here and there for a while, should be used to it, but then again YMMV

PPS: What is Stirling?

+1

I move to have YMMV banned from the site. Would anyone like to second that?

I second that although YMMV.
 
Though I agree with the OP, I have to say that this forum is among the most respectful and courteous of many that I have experienced. The degree to which members try to be helpful and encouraging is remarkable. I have been (and still am) involved in other forums where the slash and burn fanboy ethic is rampant (check out most audio forums). While there is an occasional dip into that pool here, is it mostly restrained and usually called out my the more responsible members. All in all I find B&B a class act.
 
You're all terrible people. Stop being reasonable on the INTERNET :mad3:! I mean seriously, everyone knows that the internet exists solely for people to assert that they are right all the time and that anyone who disagrees with them is comparable to Hitler :tongue_sm.

Seriously though. There's nothing wrong with YMMV, as long as it's used in the correct manner. It is most applicable when offering advice and opinion. It really means, "This works best for me, but it might not work as well for you". It is not particularly applicable when stating that someone else's advice and opinion are wrong.
 
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Also:

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http://xkcd.com/386/
 

tankerjohn

A little poofier than I prefer
I have been known to pepper my posts with "YMMV", but I do try to use it in context and not gratuitously. I think there are disagreements that are simply matters of opinion (i.e. I like this scent better than that scent) and then there are characteristics of products that genuinely vary between men such as allergic reactions to software products, matching razor aggression to beard type. I think the biggest problem areas are when you get into dogmatic topics like tallow in soap, effectiveness of slants, vintage vs. new - that kind of thing. Anyway, I'll just add that my other great passion is bicycles and the bicycle forums are the exact same way with the fanboys and haters for this or that product. And actually, B&B, tends to be a whole lot more gentlemanly than most forums out there.
 
Most of, if not all of, what you read on a shaving forum is opinion. I have not seen any independent testing organizations that rank any shaving products in a scientific objective manner. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

As individuals we are all different and have different experiences with any particular shaving product. The YMMV is entirely appropriate.

There usually is no single correct way of doing things to get a good end result. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Everyone has to find what works for them.

There is no room for haters or fan boys. You have to accept that what works for you may or may not work for others. The word "best" used to describe a product or method is a word I truly dislike unless "for me" is added as a qualifier.

Bob
 
Most of, if not all of, what you read on a shaving forum is opinion. I have not seen any independent testing organizations that rank any shaving products in a scientific objective manner. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

As individuals we are all different and have different experiences with any particular shaving product. The YMMV is entirely appropriate.

There usually is no single correct way of doing things to get a good end result. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Everyone has to find what works for them.

There is no room for haters or fan boys. You have to accept that what works for you may or may not work for others. The word "best" used to describe a product or method is a word I truly dislike unless "for me" is added as a qualifier.

Bob

Very true. This subject (shaving and shaving products) has so many variables due to types of skin, beard types, allegies/sensitivities, etc that it's very difficult to make determinations on what works for others. All you can do is offer general advice and suggestions and the individual will have to find for himself what works.
 
I find that people usually read a post along the mood of their personality.

So, I take the motto of the movie Frozen.......Let it go, let it go!

life to too short to let the Internet bother you!
 
Most of, if not all of, what you read on a shaving forum is opinion. I have not seen any independent testing organizations that rank any shaving products in a scientific objective manner. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

As individuals we are all different and have different experiences with any particular shaving product. The YMMV is entirely appropriate.

There usually is no single correct way of doing things to get a good end result. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Everyone has to find what works for them.

There is no room for haters or fan boys. You have to accept that what works for you may or may not work for others. The word "best" used to describe a product or method is a word I truly dislike unless "for me" is added as a qualifier.

Bob

Quite right. There are few, if any, absolute, unquestionable, empirical, irrefutable, undeniable, proven truths in shaving. What works for you may not work for others, and we should respect those differences in a gentlemanly way. We are grown up enough to disagree without being disagreeable.

Apart from the Arko haters: they'll be first up against the wall when the revolution comes! :001_smile
 
Very well said OP!

I read your Haslinger thread, and I disagree. But I think it is important for everyone to realize that when you read someone's post whether negative or positive, we need to remember that there are so many variables that could cause someone to get a different opinion.

I will continue to buy Haslinger and i'm sure that doesn't bother the OP, but no product is perfect for every scenario, and it is quite possible that the OPs scenario is not perfect for Haslinger. Thus not making his opinion wrong.

Isn't it a great world we live in where we aren't stuck with foam in a can?! We have so many choices out there that we can keep going until we find the right one or do like me and try them all!

I'll echo the sentiment from others this site is great and filled with gentleman. But everyone gets passionate and passion can turn into negativity and as any forum or any discussion for that matter it is possible to see nonconstructive criticism. But it does happen less on this site.

Good day gents!
 
This is only shaving. There are no lives or anyone's sacred honor at stake. I read stuff and move on regardless of what the poster's opinion is.
 
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