Probak info

When did Gillette takeover/buy/own Probak? Are they the same quality as Gillette razors?

Only info I could find was sometime in the 1930s and that Probak was originally a division of AutoStrop. Did Gillette get Probak at the same time it bought AutoStrop?

GentsInstinct said:

When did Gillette takeover/buy/own Probak? Are they the same quality as Gillette razors?

Only info I could find was sometime in the 1930s and that Probak was originally a division of AutoStrop. Did Gillette get Probak at the same time it bought AutoStrop?

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The Gillette merger with Probak was announced on October 16, 1930. It was actually a significant event in Gillette's history. The big deal with Probak was not it's razors but it's razor blades. The purpose of the merger appeared to be three fold, 1st to eliminate competition, 2nd to avoid a patent infringement lawsuit and last but not the least was to gain Probak's superior manufacturing and sharpening of it's blades. After the merger all of Gillette's blade making tools were scraped and new automated equipment was installed. A most significant result of the merger is that Henry J. Gaisman, the founder of Auto-Strop and Probak, became Chairman of the Board of the Gillette Safety Razor Co.

I would imagine the Probak razors were on a par with the Gillette but I really don't know.

Len

Oldguy said:

The Gillette merger with Probak was announced on October 16, 1930. It was actually a significant event in Gillette's history. The big deal with Probak was not it's razors but it's razor blades. The purpose of the merger appeared to be three fold, 1st to eliminate competition, 2nd to avoid a patent infringement lawsuit and last but not the least was to gain Probak's superior manufacturing and sharpening of it's blades. After the merger all of Gillette's blade making tools were scraped and new automated equipment was installed. A most significant result of the merger is that Henry J. Gaisman, the founder of Auto-Strop and Probak, became Chairman of the Board of the Gillette Safety Razor Co.

I would imagine the Probak razors were on a par with the Gillette but I really don't know.

Len

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Very informative. Thank you very much!

I received a Probak razor today (pictures below: don't be fooled by the colors in the first shot: the razor is silver-tone throughout). I was excited to get my hands on this razor, since I am interested in the Probak-Gillette patent fight. I have also heard that the Probak shaves well, and I look forward to testing that rumor.

Does anyone know what the manufacturing dates were? I see the same reissue 17567 as the NEW, and that reissue happened in early 1930. So this particular razor cannot pre-date the Gillette acquisition. The other patents are older (US1639335 and US1633739, both issued mid-1927). So it can't be any earlier than 1930, but we already knew that from the history of Probak. From this mid-1936 ad, I gather that Probak razors were being remaindered by 1936. Can anyone narrow it down farther than 1930-36?

Also, does anyone know how the Probak cap and base plate were made? The handle seems to be chrome-plated brass: I can see the brass threads in the handle, and my example is flaking in places. But the cap and head feel light to me, and I suspect that they are not brass. Their interior faces have a dull, silvery look that makes me think of cast aluminum. A scratch, visible on the interior face of the plate, is slightly brighter than the rest of the plate and shows no brass underneath. The writing on the underside of the plate also has a duller backing, but the outside of the cap and plate are shiny. The duller finish is not soap residue. There is no visible brass on the threads of the cap screw, but the screw is capped with something dark grey that may be a protective coating, and could well be a user modification. There was quite a bit of rust on both the cap and plate, which was difficult to remove from the dull finish. None of the parts attracts a magnet.

Is it possible to polish aluminum to this bright of a finish? Or did Probak coat the outside of these parts with zincate, so that they would take chrome plating? Perhaps they even masked off the background for the shiny writing?

I would love some info as well. I just picked up a travel razor with case just like this one a month or two ago.

ETA: I guess mine is slightly different in the shape of the tabs that hold the blade. It has the reissued pat no though.

I see a similar shiny-dull contrast on some Goodwill razors - but the NEW is equally shiny on both sides.

Hi,
as far as i know was the Probak TM first used in 1928 when Probak was a part of the Autostrop Company.
In 1929 the first Probak Razors had been sold in many different stud and cap variations, just to fit the New Type Blades.
Instead of the Goodwill (that recycled older Razor Parts of OT, NT and New Improved) the Probak Razor was new invented just
to fit the NEW Blades but the main geometry of the head was based on the Old Type Razors (and OT clones).
The Design of the Probak shows typical analogies to other non Gillette DE Razors of the US at the End of the 1920s (for
Example Sweedoo and Segal) what shows one more time that it was a independend invention with no relations to the Goodwill,
the similarities are only the result of the same requirements to fit the New Longhole Blades.
Autostrop also invented a Probak TM Longhole Blade in 1929 exclusivly for the Probak Razor and as concurrent for the Gillette New
Blade.
At November the 30th of 1930 Autostrop became a Division of Gillette so that the rivalry ended, i guess the Probak was since then
produced as a single standing produkt beneath the NEW (maybe the Probal was listed in the Lower Price Region?).
Maybe the End of the Probak came at the time when the New sunk to the lower Price Region of Gillette when the TTO´s had been introduced.
The Main Material was Brass with nickel or chrome finish.

Well... I take the view that Gillette was imitating Probak with the blade design and cap design, but you have a point about Probak echoing of the Old Type head. Are you familiar with the history of the patent fight? Really, Gillette became a division of Auto Strop. But the Gillette name sold better, and so the Auto Strop and Probak brands were eventually retired.

I am still not convinced that the head of the Probaks and some Goodwills were brass. My own example's cap and plate do not feel like brass. The handle does feel like brass, and shows brassing. But the cap and plate are lighter, and show no brassing.

Hi,
Thanks for the information, i heard that Autostrop became a Gillette Division but not the other way, i think i should search fur further Informations in the net.
I had a Probak Razor with completly lost chrome/nickel and there was only brass, so that at least some models had been made from brass.

Yes, Gillette did take over Probak. But Gillette had a gun to its head in the form of Probak's patents on blade designs and razor designs. So really it was a merger, and after the merger it was Henry J. Gaismain, the designer of the Auto Strop and Probak razors, who ran Gillette from 1931-38. We have a summary on the wiki at http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Probak with some reference links. That might get you started, if you want to read more.

Thanks for the information about your brass Probak. It is interesting to hear about variation like that. The Goodwill razors were famous for their mix of different parts, too.

I have to thank you, that story was new for me. Im collectig especially Goodwills (as it is possible to get some in Germany) and im still searching for Probaks. I was an idiot to sell the probak i had

Picked up this interesting razor.
It is a made in Canada Gillette Old Type head on a Probak handle.
There seems to be enough of these around to assume that these are Gillette Canada factory frankenrazors using left over parts from the Autostrop/Gillette merger in 1930.
It seems that the Old Type razor base has been modified by machining the 4 'grooves on the corners to match the cap which looks like the corners have been 'pinched'. I havent been able to match up these bases or caps to see if they were left over parts from another model.
The end cap on the handle has traces of silver plating so the handle would of been completely silver plated.
I believe the razor does belong in this case, it fits perfect and the indentations in the case suggest that this razor has been in this case for a long time.
I wouldnt doubt that the case was old stock recycled by Gillette.
It probably should have 2 metal blade cases.
This razor would of been produced in the midst of the great depression, the Goodwill and the NEW models were being produced at the same time.
Im not sure if any of these types of razors were produced by Gillette USA or just in Canada.
I would think that by using existing parts that this would sell at a high margin which would be a good thing for Gillette during this time.

Anyone else have any info/theories on these unique razors?



The unopened blue blades are not age correct


The rear of the case


















Cleaned and polished...a nice looking razor

Sort of a Canadian Goodwill?

Right up until I saw the remilled guard plate and NEW-style cap I was thinking Frankenrazor, but that guard plate tells a story. Along with the cap, I think the intent was to encourage uptake of the NEW-style blades... just like the Goodwill did.

Sure about the silver plate? My Probak seems to be chrome-plated.

Sled Dog, you keep finding some gems! Great razor!

Sort of a Canadian Goodwill?

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Kinda...as in it seems to be pieced together from different razors. I have a Canadian Goodwill, so I dont think this would of been offered as a Goodwill model, especially if it came in this case.

Right up until I saw the remilled guard plate and NEW-style cap I was thinking Frankenrazor, but that guard plate tells a story. Along with the cap, I think the intent was to encourage uptake of the NEW-style blades... just like the Goodwill did.

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Not sure if I'm following you...what do you mean by NEW style cap..the little tabs on the corners? My Goodwills have those tabs but not my NEW's..

Sure about the silver plate? My Probak seems to be chrome-plated.

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No,, I'm not sure about the handle plating. The top part of the handle is chrome (or nickel) for sure, but the knurled part and the knob looked different, much like a silver plated razor I have. Looking again, it is hard to tell with the worn knurling, it could very well be worn chrome...

Heres another post with a couple of similar razors, they appear to have chrome handles knobs
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/245440-Help-to-ID-razor

A few more pics

Same head and cap found on this razor
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/256436-Gillette-ID-help-please

Sled Dog that is one sweet looking razor!

Probak leftover handle

mblakele said:

Sort of a Canadian Goodwill?

Right up until I saw the remilled guard plate and NEW-style cap I was thinking Frankenrazor, but that guard plate tells a story. Along with the cap, I think the intent was to encourage uptake of the NEW-style blades... just like the Goodwill did.

Sure about the silver plate? My Probak seems to be chrome-plated.

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Canadian Goodwill Variant....only explanation, unless Porter or another member may know something.

I found this one in Montréal, 2 weeks ago. It's more than a theorie when there is a bunch of identical razors.